8 ms·

Why would anyone want to get rid of nation states? Merging them would create even larger and slower bureaucracies, breaking them into smaller pieces would not

by chr1 7y ago

Why would anyone want to get rid of nation states? Merging them would create even larger and slower bureaucracies, breaking them into smaller pieces would not be allowed. The only solution is to let them be and try to build something new. > Ask them their opinions on the big crimes (murder/rape/arson etc). Will they allow me to keep slaves on my seastead? Are you complaining that there are not enough crazy people? No one wants to escape the real laws, because they are proven to be necessary for the society to work, and everyone agrees about them. The "minor regulations" are the laws that make all the difference. > These are nothing more than rich randians complaining about their tax bracket When this "rich randians" make the technology for living and working in a floating city cheap, they not only will get what they want but also will make it possible for "brave marxians" to try out their ideas too, and maybe they'll finally will build the society that will show to everyone that high taxes and planned economy are the best things.

dexterdog 7y ago
> maybe they'll finally will build the society that will show to everyone that high taxes and planned economy are the best things. I'm not holding my breath
- chr1 7y ago
  Neither do i, but if some people truly believe that communism/socialism can work without iron curtain keeping people inside, they should be happy about seasteading as it will give them a way to test their hypothesis.
hobofan 7y ago
> No one wants to escape the real laws, because they are proven to be necessary for the society to work, and everyone agrees about them. There are (next to) no laws that are internationally agreed upon.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  While not the exact specifics, no, but can you point to a society which actively encourages theft and murder? I'm talking not for special circumstances (ie. execution for crimes), but the straight up "I just wanted to stab a dude" murder.
  - TheRealPomax 7y ago
    The opposite of "we can't agree on laws" is not "we encourage the behaviour that most places have those laws in place to discourage". What you should be asking is "show me a country that doesn't have laws for what we commonly consider illegal behaviour". So okay: slavery is horrible, and illegal (by law) in a lot of places. But not in Mali, where hundreds of thousands of people are either indentured servants, or quite literally slaves.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      You're right - encourage was the wrong word. Every country will have laws that we don't like, I get that, but I'm arguing that there is a common ground there - it may not be very big, and it may be pretty basic when it comes to what it's covering, but I don't think there's a nation on earth where murder is perfectly OK. There are SOME basic elements everybody follows.
      - Frondo 7y ago
        I too would like to hear of the country where 1) Don't kill and 2) Don't steal are not in some way specified in law.
      - TheRealPomax 7y ago
        Let's go back to your use of "society" instead of country, and you pretty quickly run into things like Boko Haram or ISIL, where murder is barely a punishable offense. And these are groups who _very clearly want_ to form their own countries. (and thankfully, so far are prevented from doing so, at high cost). So: sure, it's reasonable to assume any well-intentioned group of people will come up with some kind of basic law book, but not everyone is well-intentioned, and the question about "who runs the court?", especially for a place as tiny as this, is an excellent question to pose, because you really can't rely on common sense to lead to fair trials.
antisemiotic 7y ago
>When this "rich randians" make the technology for living and working in a floating city cheap, they not only will get what they want but also will make it possible for "brave marxians" to try out their ideas too, and maybe they'll finally will build the society that will show to everyone that high taxes and planned economy are the best things. I'm looking forward to an union of floating egoists, equipped with fancy glasses, a gallant smile, and contempt for spooked randians and marxists, while unsucessfully trying to disrupt the dairy market.

by chr1 7y ago

dexterdog 7y ago

> maybe they'll finally will build the society that will show to everyone that high taxes and planned economy are the best things. I'm not holding my breath

chr1 7y ago
Neither do i, but if some people truly believe that communism/socialism can work without iron curtain keeping people inside, they should be happy about seasteading as it will give them a way to test their hypothesis.

hobofan 7y ago

> No one wants to escape the real laws, because they are proven to be necessary for the society to work, and everyone agrees about them. There are (next to) no laws that are internationally agreed upon.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
While not the exact specifics, no, but can you point to a society which actively encourages theft and murder? I'm talking not for special circumstances (ie. execution for crimes), but the straight up "I just wanted to stab a dude" murder.
- TheRealPomax 7y ago
  The opposite of "we can't agree on laws" is not "we encourage the behaviour that most places have those laws in place to discourage". What you should be asking is "show me a country that doesn't have laws for what we commonly consider illegal behaviour". So okay: slavery is horrible, and illegal (by law) in a lot of places. But not in Mali, where hundreds of thousands of people are either indentured servants, or quite literally slaves.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    You're right - encourage was the wrong word. Every country will have laws that we don't like, I get that, but I'm arguing that there is a common ground there - it may not be very big, and it may be pretty basic when it comes to what it's covering, but I don't think there's a nation on earth where murder is perfectly OK. There are SOME basic elements everybody follows.
    - Frondo 7y ago
      I too would like to hear of the country where 1) Don't kill and 2) Don't steal are not in some way specified in law.
    - TheRealPomax 7y ago
      Let's go back to your use of "society" instead of country, and you pretty quickly run into things like Boko Haram or ISIL, where murder is barely a punishable offense. And these are groups who _very clearly want_ to form their own countries. (and thankfully, so far are prevented from doing so, at high cost). So: sure, it's reasonable to assume any well-intentioned group of people will come up with some kind of basic law book, but not everyone is well-intentioned, and the question about "who runs the court?", especially for a place as tiny as this, is an excellent question to pose, because you really can't rely on common sense to lead to fair trials.

antisemiotic 7y ago

>When this "rich randians" make the technology for living and working in a floating city cheap, they not only will get what they want but also will make it possible for "brave marxians" to try out their ideas too, and maybe they'll finally will build the society that will show to everyone that high taxes and planned economy are the best things. I'm looking forward to an union of floating egoists, equipped with fancy glasses, a gallant smile, and contempt for spooked randians and marxists, while unsucessfully trying to disrupt the dairy market.