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It's a simple and frequent mistake to believe that sovereign autonomy is wholly self-determined, and seasteading is the prime example for this. Sovereign auton
by ckastner 7y ago
It's a simple and frequent mistake to believe that sovereign autonomy is wholly self-determined, and seasteading is the prime example for this.
Sovereign autonomy is not determined by oneself. It is determined by others, specifically by recognizing the sovereignty. Without recognition, it's basically impossible to conduct any type of transaction with the outer world, for lack of jurisdiction.
- djsumdog 7y agoIt almost always requires violence to create a state, and at the very least, it does require the capacity for violence. A State has a violence on monopoly and the ability to defend itself from anyone else who says, "You are part of my State/Country/Kingdom". If you could hire a private army, or maybe an army of pirates, Seasteading would work. But you have to pay them. Conquerors often paid armies by charging taxes to the lands they conquered, placing them in debt. The solders who were injured and missing arms/legs got their reward by collecting taxes and maintaining the taken land. The book Debt: The First 5,000 Years, goes into this concept in great detail. Another book in this genre is The Dictators Handbook.
- roywiggins 7y agoEveryone else might still ignore you. Nobody recognizes Abkhazia, even though it's kinda self-governing.
- djsumdog 7y agoI've never heard of this State. It's very similar to Transnistria (which some of the world recognizes as a nation, but most UN countries still recognize as part of Moldova).
- htmk 7y agoKinda? Can you be kind enough to elaborate.
- roywiggins 7y agoWell, it's dependent on Russia to even exist. It's not like it has an independent foreign policy and depending who you ask, is not really self-governing at all: https://www.newsweek.com/how-russias-fsb-colonized-abkhazia-71447 https://www.newsweek.com/how-russias-fsb-colonized-abkhazia-...
- Freak_NL 7y ago> A State has a violence on monopoly […] A game of Monopoly will turn the most affable man violent (you probably meant the monopoly on violence).
- buboard 7y agoAnd how do you solve this chicken and egg problem? Declare autonomy peacefully -> get drowned with nukes. Declare autonomy with war -> be labeled a terrorist and get drowned with nukes. So, geopolitics have reached their final, permanent stage forever?
- asdfman123 7y agoNation lines get redrawn frequently in major wars. We are certainly not beyond having another major, cataclysmic war.
- bubblewrap 7y agoWhat country would nuke another country for declaring autonomy???
- buboard 7y agopalestine, tibet, kurdistan, taiwan etc etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
- antientropic 7y agoNukes have been used in anger only twice in history and it wasn't over a declaration of independence. They're really not very useful as an offensive weapon. If (say) Tibet declared independence, there is absolutely no chance that China would nuke it. They would simply send in a whole lot of tanks and people with guns.
- Freak_NL 7y agoIt seems a lot harder than it used to be, but new countries do emerge from time to time. South Sudan is pretty recent. Got there with plenty of violence, but no risk of getting nuked as far as I know.
- randyrand 7y agoYou don’t need recognition. In fact, some sovereign nations lived for thousands of years without even being known to the outside world. It’s nice to have though.