4 ms·

By looking at the EU CO2 spot prices we can get a quick glimpse on how much does the plane ticket matter compared to things like using Coal as power. A plane t

By looking at the EU CO2 spot prices we can get a quick glimpse on how much does the plane ticket matter compared to things like using Coal as power. A plane ticket from Finland to Japan would go from ~1000€ into 1020€ if it would pay the same CO2 emission prices as coal power pays. So basically nothing. We should focus on reducing the big CO2 emission sources instead of these. But it is understandable why people do things like this. They are really easy way to signal one cares about the environment, even though they are basically meaningless as the same person enjoys bit lower electricity prices due to cheap coal that pumps way more CO2 than the flights ever would.

perfunctory 7y ago
> We should focus on reducing the big CO2 emission sources instead of these. To be honest I don't know how I personally can focus on big CO2 sources. But I know how to stop flying.
- sharpneli 7y ago
  You could reduce your electricity use. Just drop consumption by 10% and you already more than offset any flying you do. Or try to get solars and enjoy.
  - fela 7y ago
    I don't think this is true unless you have a ridiculously high electricity bill. When I checked, one intercontinental retour flight was roughly equivalent to my yearly electricity bill, in terms of CO2 emissions. I have to admit I'm not sure how to reconcile this with CO2 credit prices, but I'm quite sure it's not really possible to offset the CO2 emissions of a intercontinental flight with 20 euro, that would mean that a minor tax on flights would make them practically carbon neutral, this is definitely not the case.
  - jdietrich 7y ago
    I think you've got your numbers badly wrong. Here in the UK, the average household used 4,648kWh of electricity in 2010. The industry average in 2008 was 527g CO2e/kWh, giving average emissions from electricity use of 2449kg per household. The above figures are falling rapidly due to efficiency and decarbonisation. A round-trip from LHR to JFK produces about 1800kg CO2e. Reducing my electricity consumption by 10% would just barely offset the carbon emissions of a short haul trip within Europe. A frequent air traveller could easily produce an extra 10 tonnes a year without really noticing.
    - sharpneli 7y ago
      That is correct. I derped and looked at total electricity consumption instead of household one.
  - hokkos 7y ago
    No, my electricity produce 22 gCO2eq/kWh for the last 12 months, it wont do much.
- grandridge 7y ago
  Stop eating industrial grown food. Stop whipping your ass with soft toilet paper. Stop consuming plastic. Stop ordering stuff from Amazon. Stop living in the modern world
dm3 7y ago
The co2.myclimate.org website shows 1.6t CO2 emitted with an offset cost of 38€ for a flight from Finland to Japan[0]. For example, according to the Carbon Footprint Factsheet published on the UoM website[1], beef is only 6.61 pounds (~= 3kg) CO2 per serving (4oz ~= 0.12kg). You'd have to eat a lot of meat to produce an amount of CO2 comparable to that caused by a single flight. Newer cars in EU are emitting around 110g CO2/km[3], so the Helsinki-Okinawa trip would result in an 8157km*110g/1000 ~= 900kg of CO2. Still less than a flight. However, according to Wikipedia[4], the flight CO2 emissions in EU are at ~100g/km per passenger which contradicts the co2.myclimate.org calculator unless the global efficiency figures are much worse than EU. Flights also emit nitrogen oxides which have a stronger effect at higher altitudes. A carbon tax enforced by the governments would be the most effective measure[2] AFAIK. [0]: https://co2.myclimate.org/en/portfolios?calculation_id=1978976&localized_currency=EUR https://co2.myclimate.org/en/portfolios?calculation_id=19789... [1]: http://css.umich.edu/factsheets/carbon-footprint-factsheet http://css.umich.edu/factsheets/carbon-footprint-factsheet [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/wiki/faq_carbonpricing https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/wiki/faq_carbonpricing [3]: https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_... [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviati...
- sharpneli 7y ago
  I based mine on the wikipedia numbers. But regardless even 38€ is peanuts. I also agree that carbon tax, or universally applied emission markets, would be the best. Coal power would be absolutely hammered as people prefer eating meat and flying instead of marginally cheaper elecricity.

perfunctory 7y ago

> We should focus on reducing the big CO2 emission sources instead of these. To be honest I don't know how I personally can focus on big CO2 sources. But I know how to stop flying.

sharpneli 7y ago
You could reduce your electricity use. Just drop consumption by 10% and you already more than offset any flying you do. Or try to get solars and enjoy.
- fela 7y ago
  I don't think this is true unless you have a ridiculously high electricity bill. When I checked, one intercontinental retour flight was roughly equivalent to my yearly electricity bill, in terms of CO2 emissions. I have to admit I'm not sure how to reconcile this with CO2 credit prices, but I'm quite sure it's not really possible to offset the CO2 emissions of a intercontinental flight with 20 euro, that would mean that a minor tax on flights would make them practically carbon neutral, this is definitely not the case.
- jdietrich 7y ago
  I think you've got your numbers badly wrong. Here in the UK, the average household used 4,648kWh of electricity in 2010. The industry average in 2008 was 527g CO2e/kWh, giving average emissions from electricity use of 2449kg per household. The above figures are falling rapidly due to efficiency and decarbonisation. A round-trip from LHR to JFK produces about 1800kg CO2e. Reducing my electricity consumption by 10% would just barely offset the carbon emissions of a short haul trip within Europe. A frequent air traveller could easily produce an extra 10 tonnes a year without really noticing.
  - sharpneli 7y ago
    That is correct. I derped and looked at total electricity consumption instead of household one.
- hokkos 7y ago
  No, my electricity produce 22 gCO2eq/kWh for the last 12 months, it wont do much.
grandridge 7y ago
Stop eating industrial grown food. Stop whipping your ass with soft toilet paper. Stop consuming plastic. Stop ordering stuff from Amazon. Stop living in the modern world

dm3 7y ago

The co2.myclimate.org website shows 1.6t CO2 emitted with an offset cost of 38€ for a flight from Finland to Japan[0]. For example, according to the Carbon Footprint Factsheet published on the UoM website[1], beef is only 6.61 pounds (~= 3kg) CO2 per serving (4oz ~= 0.12kg). You'd have to eat a lot of meat to produce an amount of CO2 comparable to that caused by a single flight. Newer cars in EU are emitting around 110g CO2/km[3], so the Helsinki-Okinawa trip would result in an 8157km*110g/1000 ~= 900kg of CO2. Still less than a flight. However, according to Wikipedia[4], the flight CO2 emissions in EU are at ~100g/km per passenger which contradicts the co2.myclimate.org calculator unless the global efficiency figures are much worse than EU. Flights also emit nitrogen oxides which have a stronger effect at higher altitudes. A carbon tax enforced by the governments would be the most effective measure[2] AFAIK. [0]: https://co2.myclimate.org/en/portfolios?calculation_id=1978976&localized_currency=EUR https://co2.myclimate.org/en/portfolios?calculation_id=19789... [1]: http://css.umich.edu/factsheets/carbon-footprint-factsheet http://css.umich.edu/factsheets/carbon-footprint-factsheet [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/wiki/faq_carbonpricing https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/wiki/faq_carbonpricing [3]: https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_... [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviati...

sharpneli 7y ago
I based mine on the wikipedia numbers. But regardless even 38€ is peanuts. I also agree that carbon tax, or universally applied emission markets, would be the best. Coal power would be absolutely hammered as people prefer eating meat and flying instead of marginally cheaper elecricity.