7 ms·

There are two main reasons I remain skeptical about Microsoft's ambitions. First and foremost is that they don't seem willing to make a commitment to use softw

There are two main reasons I remain skeptical about Microsoft's ambitions. First and foremost is that they don't seem willing to make a commitment to use software patents only for defensive purposes. Secondly is Microsoft's refusal to let regular users of Windows 10 fully and persistently disable telemetry. If Microsoft were to change in both of those ways, without introducing some replacement form of sleaze, I would take their overtures more seriously. But as things currently stand, I see no reason to believe this is anything other than a charm offensive.

tracker1 7y ago
Most of the early MS open licenses were effectively MIT with a nuclear patent clause that would only be defensive. Aside from that, the developer tools, azure etc have been under different management from Windows. Windows has specifically been chipped away slowly and methodically. Windows licensing has been reduced and the cost significantly lowered. And while I agree on telemetry, I'm not sure it's significantly worse than say iOS, Android or other OSes these days. I'm likely to shift from Hackintosh to Linux (Manjaro or Pop) with my hardware refresh coming soon. I'm not a huge fan of Windows. But I don't really blame them too much. All of that said, MS is probably the most developer friendly corporation out there today. That doesn't mean they aren't trying to and don't profit from their positions.
vezycash 7y ago
I dislike the forced telemetry stuff but, I hate the forced updates even more cos it wastes my limited data. When developing Windows Phone, Microsoft aped Apple and tended to copy the stupid things from them - such as the locked store model, inability to share apps, developer registration fee... Now for Windows, they are looking at Google. Ms prob copied the telemetry and forced update idea from Chrome. Google is a cloudish company and has used open source extensively to get that big. Google tracks every thing, everyone and converts that to cash via ads. This is what the current Microsoft CEO wants.
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  Telemetry and forced updates are as much an Apple/iOS thing as a Google thing if you are playing "Microsoft followed whatever someone else was doing". iOS has a hard deadline on updates before it forces an install, Windows was just less obvious about the window between when an update was available and when it would be forced. (It's actually very similar, most updates on Windows have exactly a week before they are forced from when they are first "advertised", but most people don't check the "advertisements" so never noticed. Each build of Windows 10 has worked harder to make advertisements more obvious and schedules more clear. Apple has more people respond directly and positively to the advertisements each update cycle.) iOS and macOS also have as much, if not more, telemetry than Windows. (iOS since Day 1, macOS more slowly.) On a fresh iOS or macOS install you see as many Telemetry opt-in questions as on a Windows install. A lot of it just comes down to marketing. Apple has more marketing charisma to spare, and more people respect Apple's updates and telemetry. Arguably too, fewer overall users makes fewer obvious complaints, and historically there are fewer reasons to complain about Apple products than Microsoft products.
  - beagle3 7y ago
    When did iOS start forcing upgrades? I have phones/iPads on iOS 5,6,9 and 11, and they don’t force anything (I don’t use them daily, only to check some things - but I do turn them on for a day every couple of months)
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > I dislike the forced telemetry stuff but, I hate the forced updates even more Those two things all by themselves are more than enough to warrant avoiding the OS when at all possible.

tracker1 7y ago

Most of the early MS open licenses were effectively MIT with a nuclear patent clause that would only be defensive. Aside from that, the developer tools, azure etc have been under different management from Windows. Windows has specifically been chipped away slowly and methodically. Windows licensing has been reduced and the cost significantly lowered. And while I agree on telemetry, I'm not sure it's significantly worse than say iOS, Android or other OSes these days. I'm likely to shift from Hackintosh to Linux (Manjaro or Pop) with my hardware refresh coming soon. I'm not a huge fan of Windows. But I don't really blame them too much. All of that said, MS is probably the most developer friendly corporation out there today. That doesn't mean they aren't trying to and don't profit from their positions.

vezycash 7y ago

I dislike the forced telemetry stuff but, I hate the forced updates even more cos it wastes my limited data. When developing Windows Phone, Microsoft aped Apple and tended to copy the stupid things from them - such as the locked store model, inability to share apps, developer registration fee... Now for Windows, they are looking at Google. Ms prob copied the telemetry and forced update idea from Chrome. Google is a cloudish company and has used open source extensively to get that big. Google tracks every thing, everyone and converts that to cash via ads. This is what the current Microsoft CEO wants.

WorldMaker 7y ago
Telemetry and forced updates are as much an Apple/iOS thing as a Google thing if you are playing "Microsoft followed whatever someone else was doing". iOS has a hard deadline on updates before it forces an install, Windows was just less obvious about the window between when an update was available and when it would be forced. (It's actually very similar, most updates on Windows have exactly a week before they are forced from when they are first "advertised", but most people don't check the "advertisements" so never noticed. Each build of Windows 10 has worked harder to make advertisements more obvious and schedules more clear. Apple has more people respond directly and positively to the advertisements each update cycle.) iOS and macOS also have as much, if not more, telemetry than Windows. (iOS since Day 1, macOS more slowly.) On a fresh iOS or macOS install you see as many Telemetry opt-in questions as on a Windows install. A lot of it just comes down to marketing. Apple has more marketing charisma to spare, and more people respect Apple's updates and telemetry. Arguably too, fewer overall users makes fewer obvious complaints, and historically there are fewer reasons to complain about Apple products than Microsoft products.
- beagle3 7y ago
  When did iOS start forcing upgrades? I have phones/iPads on iOS 5,6,9 and 11, and they don’t force anything (I don’t use them daily, only to check some things - but I do turn them on for a day every couple of months)
JohnFen 7y ago
> I dislike the forced telemetry stuff but, I hate the forced updates even more Those two things all by themselves are more than enough to warrant avoiding the OS when at all possible.