5 ms·

PigeonTransit's Misleading Privacy Claims

35 points by luu 7y ago

greenyoda 7y ago
You also have to dig pretty deep on Pigeon Transit's web site (https://pigeontransit.com https://pigeontransit.com) to see that it's really part of Google. From the FAQ: > Who created Pigeon? > Pigeon is lovingly designed and built by a small team based in New York as a part of Area 120 - a workshop for experimental products. You then have to follow another link to "Area 120", which takes you to area120.google.com and finally tells you: > Area 120 is a workshop for Google's experimental products. It's interesting that Google launched their app on iOS before Android. Also from the FAQ: > We’re currently focused on learning and testing with iOS users in NYC, but we hope to bring Pigeon to Android soon.
- jlv2 7y ago
  I'm not so sure that a click on "Who Created Pigeon" and then a click on "Area 120" counts as "dig pretty deep".
  - evrydayhustling 7y ago
    Not deep as in "deserves a Pulitzer", but plenty deep enough for "intentionally misleading".
  - userbinator 7y ago
    The branding and everything else about it certainly doesn't make it obvious that it's related to Google in any way...
  - anbop 7y ago
    But it’s clearly an intentional omission of the relationship between Pigeon and one of the five most recognizable brands in the world.
optimizingme 7y ago
What's even more interesting is how Twitter has locked the number of likes and retweets. This hit the front page of HN. Myself and many others liked and retweeted it. The likes and retweets haven't gone up. Just 17 likes, 1 retweet. https://twitter.com/OptimizingMe/status/1135731744496209920?s=19 https://twitter.com/OptimizingMe/status/1135731744496209920?...
- SECProto 7y ago
  Shows me 4 + 23. Twitter is pretty bad about caching those numbers, you generally can't see them change easily. Try checking a private Window?
  - optimizingme 7y ago
    I tested multiple browsers (not logged in, regular and private) and the Android client. I suspect some kind of IP based metric. Twitter metrics are pretty real time for me normally.
    - SECProto 7y ago
      24 hours later: 8 + 38. Seems fine.
  - optimizingme 7y ago
    I've been tracing an ongoing pattern whereby large corporations seem to alter reach of tweets that are critical of the corporation, even when the tweets are factual. I've been critical of Cargill foods including exploring the link between the herbicides and antibiotics in their meat on testosterone. We're talking pubmed links, screenshots, etc. They seem to have blocked certain keywords like Cargill + my username and have selectively removed the most powerful tweets from Twitter search. On the selectively censored search results, the posts disappear from search during business hours, as if being hand picked by executives.
- m463 7y ago
  could that be fake news? (fake views?)
CaliforniaKarl 7y ago
"Report a security or privacy vulnerability": https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201220 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201220 I understand wanting to raise the word on Twitter, but I really don't think that is a solution for notifying Apple using their established contact process.
- paxys 7y ago
  Going viral on Twitter is going to get something taken care of a LOT faster than putting in a customer service ticket.
oh_sigh 7y ago
I don't know if I'm reading the twitter thread right(I only see 1 post), but I don't see how it is misleading for an app to be owned by google, and for the TOS to say 'we won't share the information with anyone'. It isn't a given that any data google has it will use or share. For example, they don't look at data you have stored on their cloud file storage service. I'd actually trust Google more than some random company to stick to their privacy statement. And finally, I can understand why this isn't branded as a Google product if it comes from area 120, which is an internal incubator.
- ajdlinux 7y ago
  The issue is "we won't share the information with anyone" is likely to be interpreted by the average user as "we won't share the information outside our cool little startup which makes this awesome Pigeon app", rather than "we won't share the information outside our friendly megacorp Google".
  - jsty 7y ago
    But considering most app terms allow for transfer of data to the purchaser on buy-out, and the fate of many a 'cool little startup' is to be bought out by a large company, momentary independence isn't really a much greater guarantee that your data won't be sitting in a megacorp soon.

35 points by luu 7y ago

You also have to dig pretty deep on Pigeon Transit's web site (https://pigeontransit.com https://pigeontransit.com) to see that it's really part of Google. From the FAQ: > Who created Pigeon? > Pigeon is lovingly designed and built by a small team based in New York as a part of Area 120 - a workshop for experimental products. You then have to follow another link to "Area 120", which takes you to area120.google.com and finally tells you: > Area 120 is a workshop for Google's experimental products. It's interesting that Google launched their app on iOS before Android. Also from the FAQ: > We’re currently focused on learning and testing with iOS users in NYC, but we hope to bring Pigeon to Android soon.

jlv2 7y ago
I'm not so sure that a click on "Who Created Pigeon" and then a click on "Area 120" counts as "dig pretty deep".
- evrydayhustling 7y ago
  Not deep as in "deserves a Pulitzer", but plenty deep enough for "intentionally misleading".
- userbinator 7y ago
  The branding and everything else about it certainly doesn't make it obvious that it's related to Google in any way...
- anbop 7y ago
  But it’s clearly an intentional omission of the relationship between Pigeon and one of the five most recognizable brands in the world.

optimizingme 7y ago

What's even more interesting is how Twitter has locked the number of likes and retweets. This hit the front page of HN. Myself and many others liked and retweeted it. The likes and retweets haven't gone up. Just 17 likes, 1 retweet. https://twitter.com/OptimizingMe/status/1135731744496209920?s=19 https://twitter.com/OptimizingMe/status/1135731744496209920?...

SECProto 7y ago
Shows me 4 + 23. Twitter is pretty bad about caching those numbers, you generally can't see them change easily. Try checking a private Window?
- optimizingme 7y ago
  I tested multiple browsers (not logged in, regular and private) and the Android client. I suspect some kind of IP based metric. Twitter metrics are pretty real time for me normally.
  - SECProto 7y ago
    24 hours later: 8 + 38. Seems fine.
- optimizingme 7y ago
  I've been tracing an ongoing pattern whereby large corporations seem to alter reach of tweets that are critical of the corporation, even when the tweets are factual. I've been critical of Cargill foods including exploring the link between the herbicides and antibiotics in their meat on testosterone. We're talking pubmed links, screenshots, etc. They seem to have blocked certain keywords like Cargill + my username and have selectively removed the most powerful tweets from Twitter search. On the selectively censored search results, the posts disappear from search during business hours, as if being hand picked by executives.
m463 7y ago
could that be fake news? (fake views?)

CaliforniaKarl 7y ago

"Report a security or privacy vulnerability": https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201220 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201220 I understand wanting to raise the word on Twitter, but I really don't think that is a solution for notifying Apple using their established contact process.

paxys 7y ago
Going viral on Twitter is going to get something taken care of a LOT faster than putting in a customer service ticket.

oh_sigh 7y ago

I don't know if I'm reading the twitter thread right(I only see 1 post), but I don't see how it is misleading for an app to be owned by google, and for the TOS to say 'we won't share the information with anyone'. It isn't a given that any data google has it will use or share. For example, they don't look at data you have stored on their cloud file storage service. I'd actually trust Google more than some random company to stick to their privacy statement. And finally, I can understand why this isn't branded as a Google product if it comes from area 120, which is an internal incubator.

ajdlinux 7y ago
The issue is "we won't share the information with anyone" is likely to be interpreted by the average user as "we won't share the information outside our cool little startup which makes this awesome Pigeon app", rather than "we won't share the information outside our friendly megacorp Google".
- jsty 7y ago
  But considering most app terms allow for transfer of data to the purchaser on buy-out, and the fate of many a 'cool little startup' is to be bought out by a large company, momentary independence isn't really a much greater guarantee that your data won't be sitting in a megacorp soon.