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I think expanding it to Western culture is projecting a bit. Here in Europe, almost everyone I talk to considers the US a borderline hostile place to visit, let

by kace91 7y ago

I think expanding it to Western culture is projecting a bit. Here in Europe, almost everyone I talk to considers the US a borderline hostile place to visit, let alone emigrate to... It's true that in part we're a bit spoiled by the ease of movement inside the EU, but the general experience of entering the US (including airport security) is unwelcoming to the point of being humiliating - very different to the way the American people treats foreigners once inside, since they're generally welcoming and open. It's more of an structural/institutional problem.

beached_whale 7y ago
I don't think it is spoiled. Definitely better than here in North America, but is isn't spoiled to be afforded basic human rights of not being treated like cargo when crossing an imaginary line.
- refurb 7y ago
  This is a ridiculous argument. There is a huge demand for people to immigrate to the US and it has every right to screen people looking for visa’s however it wants.
  - beached_whale 7y ago
    All the idea of countries do is perpetuate inequality and allow for the sovereignty excuse for the abuse of their own people. Sovereignty is a tool of oppression. It codifies in law an Us and Them instead of We. Yay, I won the geographic lottery and was born to a rich country. We better enforce that at an imaginary line on the ground with weapons. The problem starts when the powerful countries mess up the lives of people outside their borders, all the while complaining that those people shouldn't be allowed to come here.
  - mLuby 7y ago
    This is a ridiculous argument. First, in theory any sovereign country can do whatever it wants, but it definitely shouldn't. Second, the comment is about simply visiting (or god forbid having a connecting flight in) the US, not applying for visas (which certainly deserve more thorough handling). Third, the richest and most powerful nation on Earth should be setting a high standard for humane treatment of all people, especially when that same country espouses such beliefs as freedom and human rights.
    - refurb 7y ago
      Asking for social media handles is inhumane? It may be bad policy or intrusive, but calling it inhumane is hyperbole.
      - codedokode 7y ago
        It is definitely not friendly because social network is a place to communicate with friends or family and you don't want a customs officer putting their nose there.
        refurb 7y ago
        The only thing a customs official is going to see is your public online persona. If you don’t want them to look at it maybe it shouldn’t be public? Of course then could go the next step and ask for a password (which I would argue goes too far).
        chillwaves 7y ago
        Are you suggesting to lie to immigration officals about online activity? That this may be an optimal move should suggest an inherent weakness or ineffeciency in the process.
klipt 7y ago
Well traveling through the Schengen area is like traveling between US states. You don't even need a passport once you're in. If you're traveling on a non-EU passport, I don't know if entering the EU is much better. IIRC flying through Frankfurt once the customs people rifled through my carry-on for no apparent reason.
- gtirloni 7y ago
  It's really different. Going to the US with a Latin American passport gives me a lot of anxiety. In Europe, I'm always asking myself "is this all?". It's a much better experience.
- dahfizz 7y ago
  My anecdotal experience is similar. Entering the US on a US passport is a breeze. Entering the EU on a US passport felt very hostile. I would imagine it's the same everywhere - it is the most fundamental job of a government to secure its own borders and maintain its own power.
  - ghoji 7y ago
    I have found entering the US after visiting the EU (Schengen, technically) to be more hostile. The EU person typically looks at me for a second or two and then stamps. Maybe they ask me how long I'm staying, I say "a week" or whatever, and they stamp. The US people (EWR or JFK, maybe it varies) have an attitude that suggests that they think someone who visited Switzerland or Denmark is likely to be coming back from a vacation training with ISIS. They also really can't decide if my girlfriend is supposed to come to the booth with me, all of the rules suggest no since we are not a family, but then they tend to get upset after they ask me if I was traveling alone and I say no.
    - dkersten 7y ago
      Interestingly enough, I travelled to the San Diego two years ago and I was expecting a round of “premium questioning” because I had a (long expired) multi-entry visa for Syria in my (now expired) passport (I was in Damascus in late 2009), but the guy didn’t care at all, just asked what the purpose of my US visit was, spent a few minutes looking at my passport and checking his computer and then he welcomed me and sent me on my way. It was all rather painless and everyone was relatively friendly.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
csomar 7y ago
I know I'm a single data-point but I had a much easier time getting a US visa and entering the US borders (and so did my mother) than getting into Europe. One time in Paris, the police were in the airplane exit (even before you cross the gate) and stopping people based solely on color of their skin. (they did miss a few because of their bias and did stop a Belgium national). You might think Europe is cool because you are inside Europe. But Europe is as hostile as it can get. The US is an order of magnitude better in the immigration department. Europe happens to get a lot of immigrants because of land proximity.

by kace91 7y ago

beached_whale 7y ago

I don't think it is spoiled. Definitely better than here in North America, but is isn't spoiled to be afforded basic human rights of not being treated like cargo when crossing an imaginary line.

refurb 7y ago
This is a ridiculous argument. There is a huge demand for people to immigrate to the US and it has every right to screen people looking for visa’s however it wants.
- beached_whale 7y ago
  All the idea of countries do is perpetuate inequality and allow for the sovereignty excuse for the abuse of their own people. Sovereignty is a tool of oppression. It codifies in law an Us and Them instead of We. Yay, I won the geographic lottery and was born to a rich country. We better enforce that at an imaginary line on the ground with weapons. The problem starts when the powerful countries mess up the lives of people outside their borders, all the while complaining that those people shouldn't be allowed to come here.
- mLuby 7y ago
  This is a ridiculous argument. First, in theory any sovereign country can do whatever it wants, but it definitely shouldn't. Second, the comment is about simply visiting (or god forbid having a connecting flight in) the US, not applying for visas (which certainly deserve more thorough handling). Third, the richest and most powerful nation on Earth should be setting a high standard for humane treatment of all people, especially when that same country espouses such beliefs as freedom and human rights.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Asking for social media handles is inhumane? It may be bad policy or intrusive, but calling it inhumane is hyperbole.
    - codedokode 7y ago
      It is definitely not friendly because social network is a place to communicate with friends or family and you don't want a customs officer putting their nose there.
      - refurb 7y ago
        The only thing a customs official is going to see is your public online persona. If you don’t want them to look at it maybe it shouldn’t be public? Of course then could go the next step and ask for a password (which I would argue goes too far).
        chillwaves 7y ago
        Are you suggesting to lie to immigration officals about online activity? That this may be an optimal move should suggest an inherent weakness or ineffeciency in the process.

klipt 7y ago

Well traveling through the Schengen area is like traveling between US states. You don't even need a passport once you're in. If you're traveling on a non-EU passport, I don't know if entering the EU is much better. IIRC flying through Frankfurt once the customs people rifled through my carry-on for no apparent reason.

gtirloni 7y ago
It's really different. Going to the US with a Latin American passport gives me a lot of anxiety. In Europe, I'm always asking myself "is this all?". It's a much better experience.
dahfizz 7y ago
My anecdotal experience is similar. Entering the US on a US passport is a breeze. Entering the EU on a US passport felt very hostile. I would imagine it's the same everywhere - it is the most fundamental job of a government to secure its own borders and maintain its own power.
- ghoji 7y ago
  I have found entering the US after visiting the EU (Schengen, technically) to be more hostile. The EU person typically looks at me for a second or two and then stamps. Maybe they ask me how long I'm staying, I say "a week" or whatever, and they stamp. The US people (EWR or JFK, maybe it varies) have an attitude that suggests that they think someone who visited Switzerland or Denmark is likely to be coming back from a vacation training with ISIS. They also really can't decide if my girlfriend is supposed to come to the booth with me, all of the rules suggest no since we are not a family, but then they tend to get upset after they ask me if I was traveling alone and I say no.
  - dkersten 7y ago
    Interestingly enough, I travelled to the San Diego two years ago and I was expecting a round of “premium questioning” because I had a (long expired) multi-entry visa for Syria in my (now expired) passport (I was in Damascus in late 2009), but the guy didn’t care at all, just asked what the purpose of my US visit was, spent a few minutes looking at my passport and checking his computer and then he welcomed me and sent me on my way. It was all rather painless and everyone was relatively friendly.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

csomar 7y ago

I know I'm a single data-point but I had a much easier time getting a US visa and entering the US borders (and so did my mother) than getting into Europe. One time in Paris, the police were in the airplane exit (even before you cross the gate) and stopping people based solely on color of their skin. (they did miss a few because of their bias and did stop a Belgium national). You might think Europe is cool because you are inside Europe. But Europe is as hostile as it can get. The US is an order of magnitude better in the immigration department. Europe happens to get a lot of immigrants because of land proximity.