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The problem with this is that the most expensive component of electric cars: the batteries, have a ridiculously short lifespan, and they become less and less po

The problem with this is that the most expensive component of electric cars: the batteries, have a ridiculously short lifespan, and they become less and less powerful with every recharge

acdha 7y ago
Are cars really built to make them impossible to replace? I had been under the impression that multiple companies were working on the replace & reclaim model.
Brakenshire 7y ago
Old electric cars that had to push the envelope of the usage margins of their batteries were bad, but Tesla batteries show minimal degradation on average. If you stay within safety margins and within temperature ranges batteries go on for a long time. The higher the range of the battery, the more luxury you have to stay within a safety margin, and proper thermal management is becoming standard even at the lower end of the market.
Alex3917 7y ago
The lifespan of car batteries is 15 - 20 years, and they only cost a few thousand bucks to replace.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  The cost of replacing Prius batteries was a big concern ten years ago. Seems less of a concern today. As in no one talks about ti anymore. Probably because it takes a mechanic half an afternoon to do. And the cost of the batteries has come down. With the new generation of electric cars the cost of replacing the battery isn't what it would cost today, but what it will cost in 15 years. Probably will be reasonably cheap.
  - Alex3917 7y ago
    > The cost of replacing Prius batteries was a big concern ten years ago. It was never really an issue in practice, because (iirc) they had a 10 year warranty but if they failed on year 11 or 12 then Toyota would still usually just replace them for free anyway. And for the last several years you've been able to just get individual cells replaced rather than the entire battery, so it's no longer expensive to begin with.
    - Gibbon1 7y ago
      I think Hyundai warrants hybrid batteries for the life of the car. California considers batteries to be part of the emissions control system. So has a longer warranty. Actual experience seems to show that hybrid and electric car batteries are lasting longer than expected. Except for the Leaf with it's crummy thermal management.
11thEarlOfMar 7y ago
A group of owners in the Netherlands have been tracking their electric cars and found that after 160,000 miles, the degradation is at only 10% [0]. The trend lines forecast the life span to over 400,000 miles. The CEO of the maker of those cars claims (unsubstantiated at this time) that his company's battery technology will be capable of 1,000,000 miles[1]. TBD, but if true, changes the game for the auto industry in an additional vector. [0] https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/ https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat... [1] https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/tesla-battery-million-miles-elon-musk/ https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/tesla-battery-million-miles-e...
xbmcuser 7y ago
Battery costs are falling at 10-15% every 2 years and with the battery tech improving with more battery users setting up recycling plants for these will start making economic sense.10 years from now replacing the battery would be trivial and also cheap.
jryb 7y ago
Are you assuming that cell phone batteries and car batteries are the same? Empirical data shows that the engineering tradeoffs made for car batteries leave them with incredibly long lifespans (at least for Tesla or Nissan Leafs).

The problem with this is that the most expensive component of electric cars: the batteries, have a ridiculously short lifespan, and they become less and less powerful with every recharge

acdha 7y ago

Are cars really built to make them impossible to replace? I had been under the impression that multiple companies were working on the replace & reclaim model.

Brakenshire 7y ago

Old electric cars that had to push the envelope of the usage margins of their batteries were bad, but Tesla batteries show minimal degradation on average. If you stay within safety margins and within temperature ranges batteries go on for a long time. The higher the range of the battery, the more luxury you have to stay within a safety margin, and proper thermal management is becoming standard even at the lower end of the market.

Alex3917 7y ago

The lifespan of car batteries is 15 - 20 years, and they only cost a few thousand bucks to replace.

Gibbon1 7y ago
The cost of replacing Prius batteries was a big concern ten years ago. Seems less of a concern today. As in no one talks about ti anymore. Probably because it takes a mechanic half an afternoon to do. And the cost of the batteries has come down. With the new generation of electric cars the cost of replacing the battery isn't what it would cost today, but what it will cost in 15 years. Probably will be reasonably cheap.
- Alex3917 7y ago
  > The cost of replacing Prius batteries was a big concern ten years ago. It was never really an issue in practice, because (iirc) they had a 10 year warranty but if they failed on year 11 or 12 then Toyota would still usually just replace them for free anyway. And for the last several years you've been able to just get individual cells replaced rather than the entire battery, so it's no longer expensive to begin with.
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    I think Hyundai warrants hybrid batteries for the life of the car. California considers batteries to be part of the emissions control system. So has a longer warranty. Actual experience seems to show that hybrid and electric car batteries are lasting longer than expected. Except for the Leaf with it's crummy thermal management.

11thEarlOfMar 7y ago

A group of owners in the Netherlands have been tracking their electric cars and found that after 160,000 miles, the degradation is at only 10% [0]. The trend lines forecast the life span to over 400,000 miles. The CEO of the maker of those cars claims (unsubstantiated at this time) that his company's battery technology will be capable of 1,000,000 miles[1]. TBD, but if true, changes the game for the auto industry in an additional vector. [0] https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/ https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat... [1] https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/tesla-battery-million-miles-elon-musk/ https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/tesla-battery-million-miles-e...

xbmcuser 7y ago

Battery costs are falling at 10-15% every 2 years and with the battery tech improving with more battery users setting up recycling plants for these will start making economic sense.10 years from now replacing the battery would be trivial and also cheap.

jryb 7y ago

Are you assuming that cell phone batteries and car batteries are the same? Empirical data shows that the engineering tradeoffs made for car batteries leave them with incredibly long lifespans (at least for Tesla or Nissan Leafs).