4 ms·

If enough heretics have your name in their social network, your visa will be denied. Requiring social media on visa applications is like enforcing everyone to u

by pgt 7y ago

If enough heretics have your name in their social network, your visa will be denied. Requiring social media on visa applications is like enforcing everyone to use Truecaller (don't use it!). This feels like the start of a U.S. social credit system.

pnw_hazor 7y ago
Not a fan of this, but the US is late to the game -- and has received criticism because of it. Most developed countries already screen social media when processing visa applications.
- FabHK 7y ago
  Source?
- llamataboot 7y ago
  oh, make no mistake the US /already/ screened this stuff. My now-wife had all her social media pages printed out and waiting for her on an entry to the US in the Obama years. Difference is now they can ban you for lying...
  - mysterypie 7y ago
    Since you have actual first-hand knowledge of border officials doing social media questioning, could you tell us more about this? What did they ask her? What prompted them to print out the social media pages? Which social media sites? What country was she coming from? How long did they question her?
    - llamataboot 7y ago
      I mean, keep in mind this was 8 years ago. Not sure why they had them printed out - could have been to review them, could have been for intimidation. IIRC they asked her why she had changed her FB location to the American city she would stay in for the next 3 months, asked a bunch of questions about past posts in the US talking about helping build our home, buy decorations, etc (all as proof she was intent on overstaying her visa, which was vaguely ridiculous as we had applied for a fiance visa at that point, so she was pretty clearly intending on living here, but we were also pretty clearly intending on going through the legal visa process) Also asked a bunch of questions about some posts she had made seeking design clients in the US as proof she was working here illegally (even though she owned her own design business and paid taxes on it in Europe, obviously are allowed to take on US clients, but they were sketched out that she was soliciting US clients while in the US) They questioned her for about an hour with no access to phone/lawyer/etc and gave her the option of immediately voluntarily leaving the US. At the end of the process they told her that it would be the last time she could enter the US on an ESTA and next time it would have to be on the fiance visa, they also told her verbally she had to leave within 14 days, but they still stamped her for a 3 month entry as per regular ESTA guidelines. -- It was mostly a bunch of silliness about work/residency/intent to work without a work permit/intent to stay in the US without a visa even though all things were aboveboard. The most concerning to me remains that her facebook at the time was not in any legal name, certainly not the name the passenger manifest, but she was still obviously tracked down
archey1 7y ago
This is not a social credit system. The US has zero obligation to let anyone into the country and can deny a visa for no reason at all if they choose. This isn't even close to the same thing as the Chinese government banning their own citizens from using Chinese services and infrastructure because of "bad social behavior".
- frankbreetz 7y ago
  This is the isolationist attitude that people have a problem with. We don't "owe" anything to anyone, but this not the behavior of the greatest country in the world.
  - archey1 7y ago
    > We don't "owe" anything to anyone, but this not the behavior of the greatest country in the world. I didn't say the US shouldn't let people in or be respectful of foreigners - I was just stating the fact that they do not have any legal obligation to do so. Of course they do it because it is good for the country - but if they stop, who is going to make them change their mind? It's up to the American people to decide what they want for their country at any given time - the rest of the world has no power to make them do otherwise - as does any other country and I wouldn't want to force any country to take people they don't want to either.
    - frankbreetz 7y ago
      > It's up to the American people to decide what they want for their country at any given time - the rest of the world has no power to make them do otherwise - as does any other country and I wouldn't want to force any country to take people they don't want to either. A country with many allies is much more powerful than a country with none. This is a lesson that is taught before children enter school (play nicely with others), I don't know how this became an American attitude and I find it very disappointing and worrisome. You often hear statistics like the US fund 25% of NATO, or something similar. I don't see how this is a bad thing, this means we have 4 times as much power than if we were not in NATO, because we supply the most we have the most control over the group, and because we play nicely with others and listen to the needs of other countries who have similar morals as we do. You are the only one talking about a legal obligation, the article and everyone else is just talking about how this is not the behavior the world and US citizens would not like to see coming out of America the melting pot.
jorblumesea 7y ago
That's hardly equivalent at all, but okay. Asking for more stringent visa requirements that does not apply to US citizens is not even close to denying train passes to dissenting citizens.

by pgt 7y ago

pnw_hazor 7y ago

Not a fan of this, but the US is late to the game -- and has received criticism because of it. Most developed countries already screen social media when processing visa applications.

FabHK 7y ago
Source?
llamataboot 7y ago
oh, make no mistake the US /already/ screened this stuff. My now-wife had all her social media pages printed out and waiting for her on an entry to the US in the Obama years. Difference is now they can ban you for lying...
- mysterypie 7y ago
  Since you have actual first-hand knowledge of border officials doing social media questioning, could you tell us more about this? What did they ask her? What prompted them to print out the social media pages? Which social media sites? What country was she coming from? How long did they question her?
  - llamataboot 7y ago
    I mean, keep in mind this was 8 years ago. Not sure why they had them printed out - could have been to review them, could have been for intimidation. IIRC they asked her why she had changed her FB location to the American city she would stay in for the next 3 months, asked a bunch of questions about past posts in the US talking about helping build our home, buy decorations, etc (all as proof she was intent on overstaying her visa, which was vaguely ridiculous as we had applied for a fiance visa at that point, so she was pretty clearly intending on living here, but we were also pretty clearly intending on going through the legal visa process) Also asked a bunch of questions about some posts she had made seeking design clients in the US as proof she was working here illegally (even though she owned her own design business and paid taxes on it in Europe, obviously are allowed to take on US clients, but they were sketched out that she was soliciting US clients while in the US) They questioned her for about an hour with no access to phone/lawyer/etc and gave her the option of immediately voluntarily leaving the US. At the end of the process they told her that it would be the last time she could enter the US on an ESTA and next time it would have to be on the fiance visa, they also told her verbally she had to leave within 14 days, but they still stamped her for a 3 month entry as per regular ESTA guidelines. -- It was mostly a bunch of silliness about work/residency/intent to work without a work permit/intent to stay in the US without a visa even though all things were aboveboard. The most concerning to me remains that her facebook at the time was not in any legal name, certainly not the name the passenger manifest, but she was still obviously tracked down

archey1 7y ago

This is not a social credit system. The US has zero obligation to let anyone into the country and can deny a visa for no reason at all if they choose. This isn't even close to the same thing as the Chinese government banning their own citizens from using Chinese services and infrastructure because of "bad social behavior".

frankbreetz 7y ago
This is the isolationist attitude that people have a problem with. We don't "owe" anything to anyone, but this not the behavior of the greatest country in the world.
- archey1 7y ago
  > We don't "owe" anything to anyone, but this not the behavior of the greatest country in the world. I didn't say the US shouldn't let people in or be respectful of foreigners - I was just stating the fact that they do not have any legal obligation to do so. Of course they do it because it is good for the country - but if they stop, who is going to make them change their mind? It's up to the American people to decide what they want for their country at any given time - the rest of the world has no power to make them do otherwise - as does any other country and I wouldn't want to force any country to take people they don't want to either.
  - frankbreetz 7y ago
    > It's up to the American people to decide what they want for their country at any given time - the rest of the world has no power to make them do otherwise - as does any other country and I wouldn't want to force any country to take people they don't want to either. A country with many allies is much more powerful than a country with none. This is a lesson that is taught before children enter school (play nicely with others), I don't know how this became an American attitude and I find it very disappointing and worrisome. You often hear statistics like the US fund 25% of NATO, or something similar. I don't see how this is a bad thing, this means we have 4 times as much power than if we were not in NATO, because we supply the most we have the most control over the group, and because we play nicely with others and listen to the needs of other countries who have similar morals as we do. You are the only one talking about a legal obligation, the article and everyone else is just talking about how this is not the behavior the world and US citizens would not like to see coming out of America the melting pot.

jorblumesea 7y ago

That's hardly equivalent at all, but okay. Asking for more stringent visa requirements that does not apply to US citizens is not even close to denying train passes to dissenting citizens.