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Because making the tech that is safe and reliable enough for technician's to use is the hard part. I can teach anyone how to clean a mold. I can't teach just

• Avshalom 7y ago
  the appearance of disconnect thatfrenchguy is talking about is the idea that designing the mold is the actual output of society despite the fact that designing the mold no matter how few people can do it is completely useless without a massive web of interconnected labor that, yes anyone can do but, must done in order for society to actually output anything. It's not a swipe at engineers, it's a swipe at engineers who think they few highly skilled individuals are the engine of the world.
  • thatfrenchguy 7y ago
    That was the idea I was trying to convey, albeit said in a much better way thank you :-).
  • someguydave 7y ago
    That fails to respond to the point that there exists skilled necessary work that armies of unskilled workers can not replace.
    • petra 7y ago
      Value, for people, isn't necessarily dependent on scarcity. A good hamburger is valueable, to me. And this doesn't change depending on how hard or how easy it was to make that meal.
    • Avshalom 7y ago
      And there exists unskilled necessary work that armies of skilled workers can not replace. But even beyond that there's armies of skilled necessary work that skilled workers can not replace either but seem to forget exist. Apple doesn't exist without massive sophisticated logistical support but no one ever points out that the naval architects at Maersk or the welders at their shipyards are one piece of the process that allows any one to actually buy anything from Apple.
      • pm90 7y ago
        This is a very good comment. Some people like to do more repeatable tasks while others like to do more creative tasks and others don't want to do any tasks at all. We are told that one is better or more required than the other. If we can make a society where people can do what they want to while continuing to have a decent life (whatever "decent" means), its all good.
      • dahfizz 7y ago
        > And there exists unskilled necessary work that armies of skilled workers can not replace. I think this is false. Unskilled work is easy to teach and learn, by definition. All you need is an "army" and the unskilled work can be easily fulfilled.
        • Avshalom 7y ago
          Well then it'd be an army of unskilled labor wouldn't it.
          • DuskStar 7y ago
            Yes, but the point was that one side could learn to do the other side's job, but not the other way around.
            • Avshalom 7y ago
              Only if you take as given that people doing unskilled labor are to a one doing it because they are incapable of anything else.
              • DuskStar 7y ago
                The dichotomy doesn't have to be perfect to be useful. There are certainly people who are incapable of anything else - and the US military has also pretty consistent in their statements that there are many people who are incapable of anything useful (in the military).
              • 7y ago
    • ionised 7y ago
      If you're talking about software development, it's not hard to learn. You can teach someone unskilled to be a developer in around 6-12 months. Within a year or two they will be working unsupervised to a professional level. You don't need university for it. You don't need a degree. Anyone can learn it. It's not magic, it just takes time.
  • qrian 7y ago
    Not trying to critique anything, but it seems like engine itself is also useless without the rest of the parts.
    • Avshalom 7y ago
      That is point. The wheels, the engine, the frame, hundreds of other things... You can't point to one part a car and say "that's the bit that actually gets us from point a to point b" (It's also a jab at the intellectual bankruptcy of Atlas Shrugged)
      • qrian 7y ago
        I am still confused. So are you implying the engineers who think they are the engine of the world incorrect or not?
        • Avshalom 7y ago
          Oh, Sorry. It's a really shaky rhetorical flourish if you don't instinctively associate "the engine of the world" with Atlas Shrugged, Galts Gulch and the criticisms thereof. In plainer English: it's not a swipe at engineers, it's a swipe at engineers who think they few highly skilled individuals produce the majority of the economic output of the world.
  • jp555 7y ago
    So if you get a degree, it’s really the book publishers, librarians, and coal burning electricity plant that kept the lights on who deserve most of the credit?
    • Avshalom 7y ago
      Their contribution was necessary, I mean it's utterly facile but: you weren't gonna get a degree from a university if the university doesn't exist. There's a billion or so people in addition to them and a few billion more that got us to this point. It's not that there is no such thing as individual achievement it's that there is no "small minority" skilled or unskilled that the modern economy can be reduced to.
      • jp555 7y ago
        Sure as a whole, on average. But there absolutely is a small minority of extreme producers in most domains.
        • unionpivo 7y ago
          If you take out truck drivers and train operators, most modern cities die in a few weeks. If every star programmer/engineer died, a lot of things would stop working, but people would at least live long enough to maybe deal with it.
          • kjsbfkjbf 7y ago
            Especially considering many start programmers and engineers seemingly exist to increase revenue of complete luxury services like Netflix.