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It appears now that the US government can order Google, Qualcomm, Intel, and even non-US companies like ARM to do basically whatever it wants, and has shown no

by em500 7y ago

It appears now that the US government can order Google, Qualcomm, Intel, and even non-US companies like ARM to do basically whatever it wants, and has shown no qualms in the past about spying on their European allies. From the a non-American POV the US does not have a clear moral high ground.

zanny 7y ago
No villain wants to be the victim of another villain.
noelsusman 7y ago
Every government can order any company in their country to do whatever it wants. That's fundamentally how government works.
freehunter 7y ago
You're assuming the US government cares if a non-American thinks it has the moral high ground. I would be shocked if any decision maker ever considered that before making a decision.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  ...non-American... You don't need this qualifier. Our leaders don't care about the opinions of us, their subjects, either.
tekkk 7y ago
So which one you'd rather have spying you, China or US? While it's easy to mock US for doing bad things, at least as European they share a common cultural heritage. And yes, while they spy on their allies they are still allies with many European nations and their military support serves as a core pillar for many European nations' foreign policies. China on the other hand, isn't allied with any European nations and seems to actively undermine freedom of speech and to suppress its citizens. Social credit score sounds good to you? So in the context of all things, yes US does still have a moral high ground. But I admit they surely could do a better job.
- _s 7y ago
  Well ... depending on where you are in the US, certain officials and municipalities are already doing exactly what you describe, while many would openly like to do so except that some pesky laws and constitutional rights seem to be in the way. Let's not even get into the US's treatment of foreign nations and governments. One man's freedom fighter, another man's terrorist. There is no "moral high ground" between the two; you're just choosing which evil you are more comfortable with.
  - tekkk 7y ago
    Right. Well, I stand by my opinion. I do think US is bad, and what's happening there is nothing short of a circus. But there is still a giant difference. Cultural, perhaps. I think you cant't wipe out two thousand years of dynastic rule in a century. While US is at parts removing rights in China some of those rights never existed. Human activists live in jail in China, I can't say the same for US. But how can you really measure evil, all the bad things minus good things? Is a nation where there is a strict authority who must be obeyed better than a ruckus of power-hungry politicians trying to gain money, who can say. Well, anyway. Politics probably shouldn't be discussed in HN. Although it's very interesting topic.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  > share a common cultural heritage There's no reason to bring racism into it. This isn't about West vs East, it's about democracy vs fascism. If it were really as banal as us-vs-them, China would have every right to fight in whatever ways they have to. That's why their government is pushing this exact narrative on its own people. We aren't (or shouldn't be) trying to keep China the society down. We're trying to cripple history's most powerful fascist regime.
  - martin_a 7y ago
    > There's no reason to bring racism into it. This isn't about West vs East, it's about democracy vs fascism. Fascism is a big word. You should be more careful when and where to use it.
  - 7y ago
x0x0 7y ago
Huh? As far as we know, apple has very much not built the decryption tech the govt wants. And we are reasonably sure this is true because of the persistence of vendors selling cracks. I'm sure there are other examples too. So I don't really see Huawei and apple/Google/Intel as at all the same.

by em500 7y ago

zanny 7y ago

No villain wants to be the victim of another villain.

noelsusman 7y ago

Every government can order any company in their country to do whatever it wants. That's fundamentally how government works.

freehunter 7y ago

You're assuming the US government cares if a non-American thinks it has the moral high ground. I would be shocked if any decision maker ever considered that before making a decision.

jessaustin 7y ago
...non-American... You don't need this qualifier. Our leaders don't care about the opinions of us, their subjects, either.

tekkk 7y ago

So which one you'd rather have spying you, China or US? While it's easy to mock US for doing bad things, at least as European they share a common cultural heritage. And yes, while they spy on their allies they are still allies with many European nations and their military support serves as a core pillar for many European nations' foreign policies. China on the other hand, isn't allied with any European nations and seems to actively undermine freedom of speech and to suppress its citizens. Social credit score sounds good to you? So in the context of all things, yes US does still have a moral high ground. But I admit they surely could do a better job.

_s 7y ago
Well ... depending on where you are in the US, certain officials and municipalities are already doing exactly what you describe, while many would openly like to do so except that some pesky laws and constitutional rights seem to be in the way. Let's not even get into the US's treatment of foreign nations and governments. One man's freedom fighter, another man's terrorist. There is no "moral high ground" between the two; you're just choosing which evil you are more comfortable with.
- tekkk 7y ago
  Right. Well, I stand by my opinion. I do think US is bad, and what's happening there is nothing short of a circus. But there is still a giant difference. Cultural, perhaps. I think you cant't wipe out two thousand years of dynastic rule in a century. While US is at parts removing rights in China some of those rights never existed. Human activists live in jail in China, I can't say the same for US. But how can you really measure evil, all the bad things minus good things? Is a nation where there is a strict authority who must be obeyed better than a ruckus of power-hungry politicians trying to gain money, who can say. Well, anyway. Politics probably shouldn't be discussed in HN. Although it's very interesting topic.
_bxg1 7y ago
> share a common cultural heritage There's no reason to bring racism into it. This isn't about West vs East, it's about democracy vs fascism. If it were really as banal as us-vs-them, China would have every right to fight in whatever ways they have to. That's why their government is pushing this exact narrative on its own people. We aren't (or shouldn't be) trying to keep China the society down. We're trying to cripple history's most powerful fascist regime.
- martin_a 7y ago
  > There's no reason to bring racism into it. This isn't about West vs East, it's about democracy vs fascism. Fascism is a big word. You should be more careful when and where to use it.
- 7y ago

x0x0 7y ago

Huh? As far as we know, apple has very much not built the decryption tech the govt wants. And we are reasonably sure this is true because of the persistence of vendors selling cracks. I'm sure there are other examples too. So I don't really see Huawei and apple/Google/Intel as at all the same.