4 ms·

This is both frightening and disheartening. We've not been the home of the brave for a while now and I think we're pretty far from the land of the free to the

This is both frightening and disheartening. We've not been the home of the brave for a while now and I think we're pretty far from the land of the free to the outside world. This is the next level of "papers please" and I bet if this remains and is enforced will be used against citzens as well. May or may not be as bad as China's social credit system. I want to say this feels "un-American" but I'm not sure we'll ever come back from over-reaching moves like this and TSA.

senorjazz 7y ago
> We've not been the home of the brave for a while now No more nor no less than any other country, who all have their own cultural stories why they are brave as well
- StavrosK 7y ago
  > who all have their own cultural stories why they are brave as well Like who? None of the countries I've lived in is anywhere near to calling themselves the "home of the brave" or something similar.
  - bdowling 7y ago
    “Home of the brave” comes from a line in the American national anthem [0]. You will find similar patriotic statements in all countries’ national anthems. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      Sure, but that doesn't mean any of what's in the anthem is in the citizens' national conscience. Not many other countries have the equivalent of the American Civil religion... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion
ajross 7y ago
So... this is a bad policy, but let's not hyperbolize. The fourth amendment is still a thing, and it protects non-citizens and citizens alike. The demand here isn't for your social media history, it's for your account IDs. If they want your (non-public) posts, they still have to get a warrant from a judge and show cause, just like they do now. The feature they're demanding is to know who you are, so they know where to target that warrant request. And that's arguably bad, and a slippery slope. BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT LIKE THE PRC'S SOCIAL CREDIT SYSTEM. Stop it.
- astazangasta 7y ago
  Hyperbole is politically useful when you are sliding down a slippery slope. It anticipates a worse future, which is a useful brake for myopic people in the present who can't see what we are sliding into.
  - ajross 7y ago
    Maybe so, but traditionally HN has been not very accomodating of shameless spin like that. If you want to make the case for that slope and how policy will evolve, then make it. But spinning "who are you on facebook" into "we'll track everything you do online" is just wrong.
    - sverige 7y ago
      Unless we're talking about FAANG, in which case it is "providing the best possible online experience."
- StavrosK 7y ago
  > The fourth amendment is still a thing, and it protects non-citizens and citizens alike. Even in airports? > BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT LIKE THE PRC'S SOCIAL CREDIT SYSTEM. Stop it. Agreed, not yet.
- 50656E6973 7y ago
  The fourth amendment is not "a thing" if you're anywhere near (within 100 miles) of the border. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
turk73 7y ago
Hey, I was against all of it from Day 1. I was not cowed by 9/11 like most of you seem to have been. You let this happen by being too afraid and letting .gov be your mommy and daddy. I told you it was a terrible idea. I've been on message now for well over 20 years. Nobody listens, though. And nobody listens when I say corporations need to be reined in or we've had it. Most of you are in favor of strict gun control. As soon as that can be enacted on a broader scale, your rights are going to disappear even faster. With zero ability to fight back, do you think anyone is going to listen to you anymore? Haha, no! Oh yes, and lest I forget, you want to be kind to "immigrants" but you have allowed the media to confuse and blur the concept between the legal kind and the illegal kind. One kind can help strengthen our nation and its citizens (although big-tech is abusing the ever-loving shit out of the H1B system in order to kill your earning power, a super-negative downside). The other kind is being used as a sort of bio-weapon to flood localities, especially conservative ones, and destroy infrastructure and overwhelm the legal system until it, too, collapses. Your voting patterns and your apathy bring America closer and closer to a 3rd World nation each year.
- ubercow13 7y ago
  Are you saying that an effective way to fight back over a law like this is by using guns on the government?

senorjazz 7y ago

> We've not been the home of the brave for a while now No more nor no less than any other country, who all have their own cultural stories why they are brave as well

StavrosK 7y ago
> who all have their own cultural stories why they are brave as well Like who? None of the countries I've lived in is anywhere near to calling themselves the "home of the brave" or something similar.
- bdowling 7y ago
  “Home of the brave” comes from a line in the American national anthem [0]. You will find similar patriotic statements in all countries’ national anthems. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Sure, but that doesn't mean any of what's in the anthem is in the citizens' national conscience. Not many other countries have the equivalent of the American Civil religion... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion

ajross 7y ago

So... this is a bad policy, but let's not hyperbolize. The fourth amendment is still a thing, and it protects non-citizens and citizens alike. The demand here isn't for your social media history, it's for your account IDs. If they want your (non-public) posts, they still have to get a warrant from a judge and show cause, just like they do now. The feature they're demanding is to know who you are, so they know where to target that warrant request. And that's arguably bad, and a slippery slope. BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT LIKE THE PRC'S SOCIAL CREDIT SYSTEM. Stop it.

astazangasta 7y ago
Hyperbole is politically useful when you are sliding down a slippery slope. It anticipates a worse future, which is a useful brake for myopic people in the present who can't see what we are sliding into.
- ajross 7y ago
  Maybe so, but traditionally HN has been not very accomodating of shameless spin like that. If you want to make the case for that slope and how policy will evolve, then make it. But spinning "who are you on facebook" into "we'll track everything you do online" is just wrong.
  - sverige 7y ago
    Unless we're talking about FAANG, in which case it is "providing the best possible online experience."
StavrosK 7y ago
> The fourth amendment is still a thing, and it protects non-citizens and citizens alike. Even in airports? > BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT LIKE THE PRC'S SOCIAL CREDIT SYSTEM. Stop it. Agreed, not yet.
50656E6973 7y ago
The fourth amendment is not "a thing" if you're anywhere near (within 100 miles) of the border. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

turk73 7y ago

Hey, I was against all of it from Day 1. I was not cowed by 9/11 like most of you seem to have been. You let this happen by being too afraid and letting .gov be your mommy and daddy. I told you it was a terrible idea. I've been on message now for well over 20 years. Nobody listens, though. And nobody listens when I say corporations need to be reined in or we've had it. Most of you are in favor of strict gun control. As soon as that can be enacted on a broader scale, your rights are going to disappear even faster. With zero ability to fight back, do you think anyone is going to listen to you anymore? Haha, no! Oh yes, and lest I forget, you want to be kind to "immigrants" but you have allowed the media to confuse and blur the concept between the legal kind and the illegal kind. One kind can help strengthen our nation and its citizens (although big-tech is abusing the ever-loving shit out of the H1B system in order to kill your earning power, a super-negative downside). The other kind is being used as a sort of bio-weapon to flood localities, especially conservative ones, and destroy infrastructure and overwhelm the legal system until it, too, collapses. Your voting patterns and your apathy bring America closer and closer to a 3rd World nation each year.

ubercow13 7y ago
Are you saying that an effective way to fight back over a law like this is by using guns on the government?