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I get that statistically, Teslas are much less likely than ICE cars to catch fire, the media attention to EV fires is disproportionate, etc. I think if Tesla c

I get that statistically, Teslas are much less likely than ICE cars to catch fire, the media attention to EV fires is disproportionate, etc. I think if Tesla could give a reason for the fires, rather than simply pointing out how rare they are, these stories would be much less compelling. It's the sense of the unknown which makes people paranoid. I suspect it has to do with Model S battery chemistry and they don't want to make the S even less competitive against the 3 than it already is.

anticensor 7y ago
It is expected. IC engined cars produce the power literally out of fire.
- Goz3rr 7y ago
  EV batteries will turn their power into the same fire when not treated correctly or damaged
Hamuko 7y ago
What percentage of petrol station visits result in a car burning down? What percentage of Tesla supercharger visits result in a car burning down?
- arijun 7y ago
  Probably low enough on both of them that you shouldn’t be worried about either.
pieterk 7y ago
It's also that if a Lithium battery catches fire, it's not going to be stoppable by a common extinguisher. The only thing you can really do is put a shield around the fire, or drop a tungsten dome around it and pray it doesn't fly off.
- Gwypaas 7y ago
  The larger problem is the toxic gases being released.[1] For my latest safety training in the maritime industry the handling of lithium battery fires was essentially put yourself upwind and let it burn it self out to prevent any exposure. [1]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09784-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09784-z
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
    A lithium-ion battery fire is distinct from a lithium metal fire. (The paper linked here is on li-ion battery fires) Li-ion battery fires are commonly fought with water.
    - Gwypaas 7y ago
      Sorry I was not being clear, I realize that a metallic fire is different from a battery fire. Updated the comment to reflect that. The case we primarily discussed was an EV fire on the car deck of a ro-ro ferry. And the conclusion from the paper is important: "Using water mist resulted in a temporarily increased production rate of HF but the application of water mist had no significant effect on the total amount of released HF." Essentially, our conclusion was don't touch it, if you have to then cool flammable things in the vicinity and as a last resort if things are about to spiral out of control put water on it.
- fyfy18 7y ago
  As the article says, the fire department used a new approach which was to submerge the car in a pool of water and leave it over night. I'm surprised this didn't cause more issues (I guess the battery wasn't actually damaged or on fire before hand), but it's good to know it works. Still, it needs a lot more equipment than a regular car fire.
  - dredalious 7y ago
    Actually, the Belgian fire dept has done that multiple times already. At least once in the Antwerp harbor with a Volkswagen. They where being followed by a tv crew at the time, so it’s well known to the public and we got some explanation as to the reasoning of why they’re doing it like this. (“Helden van hier” S04E08)
thatsaguy 7y ago
What I get though is that ICEs might be subject to more stringent regulation at least for charging in the future. At least in EU, cars with a compressed fuel tank (hydrogen, GPL or methane) cannot be parked in a closed or underground parking lot for one safety reason: risk of explosion. The risk is pretty low, and if you have such a tank you're also subjected to scheduled regular inspections and replacement of the tank, but you still cannot park underground. Not many people are aware or respect this limit, thanks to the fact that it's not easy to distinguish a car which has a dual fuel option. Now imagine a lithium fire in a garage (maybe... your garage?).
- tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
  > Now imagine a lithium fire in a garage Much less scary than gas leaking, filling part of a large underground parking garage, then getting ignited and collapsing the entire multi-story residential building built on top of the garage. Also, while looking for examples, I learned that compressed gas (hydrogen, methane) is much less of a problem due to being lighter than air, so it doesn't accumulate as much, which means these cars are sometimes allowed. LPG, being heavier, sticks around near the ground also posing a suffocation risk.
  - thatsaguy 7y ago
    I'm not sure I'd dismiss the risk so much. With burn temperatures reaching 600C, nearby electrolytes being vented also resulting in smaller burst explosions, difficulty in suppressing the fire, cars with other flammable products nearby and the toxicity of some formulations?
- wjnc 7y ago
  GPL is legal to park in garages through most of the EU. Belgium and France have some limitations (local regulations apply / need to have safety valve).
  - ttsda 7y ago
    Portugal had that limitation up until the point where installation started to be tightly regulated, I suspect the same for the rest of EU
0815test 7y ago
Most likely, something is occasionally going wrong with the whole "Super" part of supercharging. Quick-charging a lithium battery is a lot more fiddly than just slowly feeding it a trickle of charge, and the Superchargers push the "quick" aspect to the extreme, since it's one of the most problematic parts of EV use.
monibis 7y ago
Tesla’s are relatively new and presumably well maintained The comparison with ICE cars should be to cars of a similar age. Comparing them to the entire population of ICE cars, some of which would be old and poorly maintained, seems wrong
ksec 7y ago
>Teslas are much less likely than ICE cars to catch fire I wonder how many of those ICE cars were new, or at least within the same life time of Tesla? If we are talking about good old 20 years classic, then we all expect them to fail some day right? Or exotic cars that were be pushed to the limits and caught fire. ( From a few Lamborghini ) It is extremely rare ( if at all ), that a well maintained, newer ICE cars goes into flame just by filling up with petrol.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Also, how many of those ice cars were parked in a garage and unnattended?

anticensor 7y ago

It is expected. IC engined cars produce the power literally out of fire.

Goz3rr 7y ago
EV batteries will turn their power into the same fire when not treated correctly or damaged

Hamuko 7y ago

What percentage of petrol station visits result in a car burning down? What percentage of Tesla supercharger visits result in a car burning down?

arijun 7y ago
Probably low enough on both of them that you shouldn’t be worried about either.

pieterk 7y ago

It's also that if a Lithium battery catches fire, it's not going to be stoppable by a common extinguisher. The only thing you can really do is put a shield around the fire, or drop a tungsten dome around it and pray it doesn't fly off.

Gwypaas 7y ago
The larger problem is the toxic gases being released.[1] For my latest safety training in the maritime industry the handling of lithium battery fires was essentially put yourself upwind and let it burn it self out to prevent any exposure. [1]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09784-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09784-z
- tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
  A lithium-ion battery fire is distinct from a lithium metal fire. (The paper linked here is on li-ion battery fires) Li-ion battery fires are commonly fought with water.
  - Gwypaas 7y ago
    Sorry I was not being clear, I realize that a metallic fire is different from a battery fire. Updated the comment to reflect that. The case we primarily discussed was an EV fire on the car deck of a ro-ro ferry. And the conclusion from the paper is important: "Using water mist resulted in a temporarily increased production rate of HF but the application of water mist had no significant effect on the total amount of released HF." Essentially, our conclusion was don't touch it, if you have to then cool flammable things in the vicinity and as a last resort if things are about to spiral out of control put water on it.
fyfy18 7y ago
As the article says, the fire department used a new approach which was to submerge the car in a pool of water and leave it over night. I'm surprised this didn't cause more issues (I guess the battery wasn't actually damaged or on fire before hand), but it's good to know it works. Still, it needs a lot more equipment than a regular car fire.
- dredalious 7y ago
  Actually, the Belgian fire dept has done that multiple times already. At least once in the Antwerp harbor with a Volkswagen. They where being followed by a tv crew at the time, so it’s well known to the public and we got some explanation as to the reasoning of why they’re doing it like this. (“Helden van hier” S04E08)

thatsaguy 7y ago

What I get though is that ICEs might be subject to more stringent regulation at least for charging in the future. At least in EU, cars with a compressed fuel tank (hydrogen, GPL or methane) cannot be parked in a closed or underground parking lot for one safety reason: risk of explosion. The risk is pretty low, and if you have such a tank you're also subjected to scheduled regular inspections and replacement of the tank, but you still cannot park underground. Not many people are aware or respect this limit, thanks to the fact that it's not easy to distinguish a car which has a dual fuel option. Now imagine a lithium fire in a garage (maybe... your garage?).

tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
> Now imagine a lithium fire in a garage Much less scary than gas leaking, filling part of a large underground parking garage, then getting ignited and collapsing the entire multi-story residential building built on top of the garage. Also, while looking for examples, I learned that compressed gas (hydrogen, methane) is much less of a problem due to being lighter than air, so it doesn't accumulate as much, which means these cars are sometimes allowed. LPG, being heavier, sticks around near the ground also posing a suffocation risk.
- thatsaguy 7y ago
  I'm not sure I'd dismiss the risk so much. With burn temperatures reaching 600C, nearby electrolytes being vented also resulting in smaller burst explosions, difficulty in suppressing the fire, cars with other flammable products nearby and the toxicity of some formulations?
wjnc 7y ago
GPL is legal to park in garages through most of the EU. Belgium and France have some limitations (local regulations apply / need to have safety valve).
- ttsda 7y ago
  Portugal had that limitation up until the point where installation started to be tightly regulated, I suspect the same for the rest of EU

0815test 7y ago

Most likely, something is occasionally going wrong with the whole "Super" part of supercharging. Quick-charging a lithium battery is a lot more fiddly than just slowly feeding it a trickle of charge, and the Superchargers push the "quick" aspect to the extreme, since it's one of the most problematic parts of EV use.

monibis 7y ago

Tesla’s are relatively new and presumably well maintained The comparison with ICE cars should be to cars of a similar age. Comparing them to the entire population of ICE cars, some of which would be old and poorly maintained, seems wrong

ksec 7y ago

>Teslas are much less likely than ICE cars to catch fire I wonder how many of those ICE cars were new, or at least within the same life time of Tesla? If we are talking about good old 20 years classic, then we all expect them to fail some day right? Or exotic cars that were be pushed to the limits and caught fire. ( From a few Lamborghini ) It is extremely rare ( if at all ), that a well maintained, newer ICE cars goes into flame just by filling up with petrol.

jjeaff 7y ago
Also, how many of those ice cars were parked in a garage and unnattended?