4 ms·

I know a librarian making around $100k in a small city. The job involves knowing ancient Greek and Latin, which surely affects pay. Perhaps it wasn't the great

by burfog 7y ago

I know a librarian making around $100k in a small city. The job involves knowing ancient Greek and Latin, which surely affects pay. Perhaps it wasn't the greatest example. It's what popped into mind as a skilled job that isn't just software or finance. Maybe a better example would be a dermatologist, an air traffic controller, a fire investigator, or a civil engineer. Dual income also has very real consequences for both spouses. It causes plenty of resentment. Typically the woman ends up doing most housework, even if the man intends to do half of it. That right there is a huge source of resentment. Risk of divorce goes up greatly if the woman earns more. Finding affordable child care and ensuring that it is never interrupted becomes a source of stress. While it is relatively important for the small-city people to be prepared to move, it is normal to stay in one place. Job hopping is less common. Small cities also often specialize in an industry, with several possible employers, so staying put while changing employer is often possible. The urban environment has its own very real consequences on relationships and community. Residents are typically renters who can find themselves evicted. Because there is such a large mass of anonymous people, relationships are throw-away from the start.

watwut 7y ago
Me being woman, I take dual income over single one in part due to consequences. The negotiation over household work is much better with dual income anyway. So is any other conflict situation, especially those about money. The risk of divorce with woman earning real money is in part larger, because she has that option. See, the spouse that did not worked for six years have hard time in job market which compels her to stay in bad relationship. Does not even have to be abusive, just a bad one. And I am picking woman here as example, because it is woman who areore often in that situation - and you framed comparatively must smaller female problem as example for some reason. I do more household work is less of a sux then "I would leave if my confidence was not so low and if I had real job options" sux. Divorces do not happen magically. They happen because someone decided it is best solution for their present situation. The "I am earning money and she does not understand and just do nothing whole day" resentment is real too.
- burfog 7y ago
  Those are not the words of someone who intends to stay together. Relationships are not automatic. They require stubborn commitment. If you are planning for an exit, you're going to get one. It is certain that there will be conflict, and you're ready to hit the eject button at the first sign of it. Infatuation does not last, and is thus not a suitable foundation for a mature relationship. Responsible people of integrity do not plan to abandon their commitments. You plan for divorce from day 1, you unsurprisingly get one, and then you can justify your planning because it happened. This is circular. I dearly hope you are at least honest about your intentions, and that you pair up with people who are like yourself, and that you have permanent birth control. Anything else would be extremely cruel and selfish. I suspect you're leaving a trail of shattered lives, broken homes, uprooted yet spoiled children, and suicidal exes.
  - watwut 7y ago
    You twisted "I want to have options if this turn bad and want to be on equal footing" to "plan to run away at first small conflict". Nice try to make it personal and recommend me to not have kids. So yes, I need the eject button in case I would marry someone like you and found out only too late. Of course it is good for you when partner does not have option to leave, because then you can respond to conflict the way you responded here and she can only shut up and take insult. Over time, it will affect her in negative way. It just so happens that kids whose parents stay in bad relationship, whether verbally abusive or violent are not better off. It just so happen that these are more likely to appear when women dont have jobs. Also, men dies and it is good to have the options in that case. Responsible people do not put themselves into massively vulnerable situation. Lastly, it was you who tried to make it about women first by "in dual income men often don't pull their weight and therefore in marriage with such men it is better for her to have no income". I guess that assumption is that men who don't listen to her concerns when on dual income will somehow listen to them better in single income situation.
    - burfog 7y ago
      I don't think I twisted anything, given that you said: "Does not even have to be abusive, just a bad one. [...] Divorces do not happen magically. They happen because someone decided it is best solution" It is nearly certain that a relationship will be bad at times. Much of the reason for marriage is to make it difficult to run off one day when you are frustrated and angry. Problems can be resolved, but not if people give up early. Willingly accepting a state of vulnerability is both a demonstration of commitment and a way to help resist the urge to give up. Death is why you buy life insurance. You can also buy disability insurance. If you marry somebody and then find out too late that you don't like them, that is unfortunate. You made that mistake. You need to take responsibility for it. That other person made major life decisions based on your promise to remain until death. That other person gave up their alternative choices for you, and can not now go back to choose differently. Lots of men really intend to pull their weight with chores, but it doesn't happen. I think this often comes about due to differing standards, not a refusal to listen to her concerns. If both will clean the toilet when they see it dirty, but her idea of "dirty" is a single spot (urine, stray hair, skid mark, etc.) while his idea of "dirty" is that the floor is sticky and the bowl scum is peeling loose in layers, she will end up doing the job. He would clean a dirty toilet, but he never encounters one.

by burfog 7y ago

watwut 7y ago

Me being woman, I take dual income over single one in part due to consequences. The negotiation over household work is much better with dual income anyway. So is any other conflict situation, especially those about money. The risk of divorce with woman earning real money is in part larger, because she has that option. See, the spouse that did not worked for six years have hard time in job market which compels her to stay in bad relationship. Does not even have to be abusive, just a bad one. And I am picking woman here as example, because it is woman who areore often in that situation - and you framed comparatively must smaller female problem as example for some reason. I do more household work is less of a sux then "I would leave if my confidence was not so low and if I had real job options" sux. Divorces do not happen magically. They happen because someone decided it is best solution for their present situation. The "I am earning money and she does not understand and just do nothing whole day" resentment is real too.

burfog 7y ago
Those are not the words of someone who intends to stay together. Relationships are not automatic. They require stubborn commitment. If you are planning for an exit, you're going to get one. It is certain that there will be conflict, and you're ready to hit the eject button at the first sign of it. Infatuation does not last, and is thus not a suitable foundation for a mature relationship. Responsible people of integrity do not plan to abandon their commitments. You plan for divorce from day 1, you unsurprisingly get one, and then you can justify your planning because it happened. This is circular. I dearly hope you are at least honest about your intentions, and that you pair up with people who are like yourself, and that you have permanent birth control. Anything else would be extremely cruel and selfish. I suspect you're leaving a trail of shattered lives, broken homes, uprooted yet spoiled children, and suicidal exes.
- watwut 7y ago
  You twisted "I want to have options if this turn bad and want to be on equal footing" to "plan to run away at first small conflict". Nice try to make it personal and recommend me to not have kids. So yes, I need the eject button in case I would marry someone like you and found out only too late. Of course it is good for you when partner does not have option to leave, because then you can respond to conflict the way you responded here and she can only shut up and take insult. Over time, it will affect her in negative way. It just so happens that kids whose parents stay in bad relationship, whether verbally abusive or violent are not better off. It just so happen that these are more likely to appear when women dont have jobs. Also, men dies and it is good to have the options in that case. Responsible people do not put themselves into massively vulnerable situation. Lastly, it was you who tried to make it about women first by "in dual income men often don't pull their weight and therefore in marriage with such men it is better for her to have no income". I guess that assumption is that men who don't listen to her concerns when on dual income will somehow listen to them better in single income situation.
  - burfog 7y ago
    I don't think I twisted anything, given that you said: "Does not even have to be abusive, just a bad one. [...] Divorces do not happen magically. They happen because someone decided it is best solution" It is nearly certain that a relationship will be bad at times. Much of the reason for marriage is to make it difficult to run off one day when you are frustrated and angry. Problems can be resolved, but not if people give up early. Willingly accepting a state of vulnerability is both a demonstration of commitment and a way to help resist the urge to give up. Death is why you buy life insurance. You can also buy disability insurance. If you marry somebody and then find out too late that you don't like them, that is unfortunate. You made that mistake. You need to take responsibility for it. That other person made major life decisions based on your promise to remain until death. That other person gave up their alternative choices for you, and can not now go back to choose differently. Lots of men really intend to pull their weight with chores, but it doesn't happen. I think this often comes about due to differing standards, not a refusal to listen to her concerns. If both will clean the toilet when they see it dirty, but her idea of "dirty" is a single spot (urine, stray hair, skid mark, etc.) while his idea of "dirty" is that the floor is sticky and the bowl scum is peeling loose in layers, she will end up doing the job. He would clean a dirty toilet, but he never encounters one.