3 ms·

> the flats that people talk about would be considered too small to live in by western standards. Most of them seem to be made of horrendous cheap plastic prefa

> the flats that people talk about would be considered too small to live in by western standards. Most of them seem to be made of horrendous cheap plastic prefab; you get a corridor with a kitchen in it, a mezzanine to sleep on above said corridor that is too small to sit upright, a 7'x'7 living area and a bathroom (including toilet) that is about 2ft x 2ft. What are you talking about? That sounds like the kind of accommodation so rare that it gets articles written [1] for being so innovative. Apartments in Japan are small, but I have never seen one like that except on the internet, or in Hong Kong. As a counterpoint, the typical small single occupant housing I saw in Japan had the following characteristics: solid concrete construction, a narrow kitchen (double burner with fish broiler, sink, counter, rice cooker, and microwave, with cupboards above and below), a small living room plus a small tatami bedroom to the side (though these spaces likely aren't separate in denser cities), a closet-sized toilet room, and a larger room with bath. So yes, they are certainly smaller than anything you find in most western countries - but that is because zoning makes it illegal. {1} https://www.livingbiginatinyhouse.com/tiny-tokyo-apartment/ https://www.livingbiginatinyhouse.com/tiny-tokyo-apartment/

osdiab 7y ago
For a real-life anecdote, last year I lived in Tokyo in a 6 jo apartment (tatami bed + living room around 110 sq ft + about equal size bathroom and kitchen), and my rent 40 minutes by train from Shibuya station and 15 minutes from Kichijoji (#1 most livable Tokyo neighborhood) was around $430/mo. I have also heard that prefab is really common - in fact just walking around Tokyo it does look like there's a ton of prefab houses. That said I've toured around some and been inside some, and they were very comfortable, more so than my current rickety San Francisco apartment and similarly to brand new NYC ones I've been in - so I don't consider them lower quality than what I typically see in American cities just because they're prefab. Rather it's far more efficient and that keeps costs down. There is something to be said about traditional Japanese living being more space-efficient - folding out your futon means that you don't have to have separate permanent bedrooms, dining rooms etc like a Western apartment would have, which allows for you to have a decent living in ~220 sq ft like I did - but if you want to live like a Westerner, you will have to pay up for that, and I do hear that Western style apartments are more popular these days. After living in San Francisco, I felt like I had hit the jackpot, but as it turns out that's just "normal" in a functioning city.
- samhain 7y ago
  I've been looking at dome houses and found some pre-fab Japanese dome homes[1] that are certified by the Japanese "Minister of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism" [2]. The round ones range from about 290 square feet to 480 square feet. They are packed less densely than I imagine most Japanese housing, but they are still quite small by western standards. 1: https://www.i-domehouse.com/case/project_house/plan_00004.html https://www.i-domehouse.com/case/project_house/plan_00004.ht... 2: https://www.i-domehouse.com/page03.html https://www.i-domehouse.com/page03.html

osdiab 7y ago

For a real-life anecdote, last year I lived in Tokyo in a 6 jo apartment (tatami bed + living room around 110 sq ft + about equal size bathroom and kitchen), and my rent 40 minutes by train from Shibuya station and 15 minutes from Kichijoji (#1 most livable Tokyo neighborhood) was around $430/mo. I have also heard that prefab is really common - in fact just walking around Tokyo it does look like there's a ton of prefab houses. That said I've toured around some and been inside some, and they were very comfortable, more so than my current rickety San Francisco apartment and similarly to brand new NYC ones I've been in - so I don't consider them lower quality than what I typically see in American cities just because they're prefab. Rather it's far more efficient and that keeps costs down. There is something to be said about traditional Japanese living being more space-efficient - folding out your futon means that you don't have to have separate permanent bedrooms, dining rooms etc like a Western apartment would have, which allows for you to have a decent living in ~220 sq ft like I did - but if you want to live like a Westerner, you will have to pay up for that, and I do hear that Western style apartments are more popular these days. After living in San Francisco, I felt like I had hit the jackpot, but as it turns out that's just "normal" in a functioning city.

samhain 7y ago
I've been looking at dome houses and found some pre-fab Japanese dome homes[1] that are certified by the Japanese "Minister of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism" [2]. The round ones range from about 290 square feet to 480 square feet. They are packed less densely than I imagine most Japanese housing, but they are still quite small by western standards. 1: https://www.i-domehouse.com/case/project_house/plan_00004.html https://www.i-domehouse.com/case/project_house/plan_00004.ht... 2: https://www.i-domehouse.com/page03.html https://www.i-domehouse.com/page03.html