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> Well, if you hate the place so much, then why apply for a visa? If you see me feeling an ethical duty to scrutinise the widespread and damaging effects of US

by pryce 7y ago

> Well, if you hate the place so much, then why apply for a visa? If you see me feeling an ethical duty to scrutinise the widespread and damaging effects of US foreign policy and immediately decide that must mean I "hate the place" (or the people), it doesn't leave much cognitive room for any genuine engagement with the idea that American foreign policy could be harmful. Secondly, one of my claims was that US foreign policy actively harms values and freedoms when it "topples democratically elected governments, starts coups and supports dictators". I've nowhere argued that the US has a duty to "ensure" the civil rights of people it does not govern (a gargantuan undertaking), but that is actually quite a seperate question than whether the US has an ethical duty to avoid actively harming them (eg with behaviour such as toppling democratically elected govts, staging coups, supporting dictators et cetera).

microcolonel 7y ago
> I've nowhere argued that the US has a duty to "ensure" the civil rights of people it does not govern Well, you said "uphold", now we're splitting hairs. My point is that surely there are countries in lower demand that you're ignorant enough about that you surely would rather visit them than the wild, irredeemable worldwide oppressor you make the U.S. out to be. Sure, American foreign policy has been bad for some people, but what does that have to do with the visa process? What does scrutinizing visa applicants' public communications for statements of ill intent have to do with American foreign policy? Would you judge Canadian visa policy based on... the residential schools system? The refusal of Jewish refugee ships on the eve of WWII? Because you seem to be judging U.S. visa policy based on the banana republics. Or is your point that they will be suspicious of people who criticize the U.S. fairly? Because honestly at this point I can't tell.

by pryce 7y ago

microcolonel 7y ago

> I've nowhere argued that the US has a duty to "ensure" the civil rights of people it does not govern Well, you said "uphold", now we're splitting hairs. My point is that surely there are countries in lower demand that you're ignorant enough about that you surely would rather visit them than the wild, irredeemable worldwide oppressor you make the U.S. out to be. Sure, American foreign policy has been bad for some people, but what does that have to do with the visa process? What does scrutinizing visa applicants' public communications for statements of ill intent have to do with American foreign policy? Would you judge Canadian visa policy based on... the residential schools system? The refusal of Jewish refugee ships on the eve of WWII? Because you seem to be judging U.S. visa policy based on the banana republics. Or is your point that they will be suspicious of people who criticize the U.S. fairly? Because honestly at this point I can't tell.