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engineers overseeing this work There the thing: nobody wants to pay engineers on par with managers. Maybe one can not manage something he/she can not understan
by GoToRO 7y ago
engineers overseeing this work
There the thing: nobody wants to pay engineers on par with managers. Maybe one can not manage something he/she can not understand.
- rjzzleep 7y agoGiven all the environments I've worked in, including midsize construction projects I'm willing to bet my hand on the fact that some engineers or third party planning bureaus actually did spot these flaws and reported them and then were turned down and ignored, but not before having been told that it's not their decision/problem. That's always the moment when I'm happy to have documented the decisions.
- LoSboccacc 7y ago> There the thing: nobody wants to pay engineers on par with managers I used to think like that but I learned in time that the core issue is that engineers rarely know how to present their job in terms of monetary benefit during salary negotiations. i.e. as an automation engineer I led an initiative that saved a previous employer more than 60k€ yearly using automation and optimizing other validation workflows. as principal engineer at my current job I saved them more than 30k€ yearly by replacing a licensed component with an open source one, filling the feature gaps myself outside of work hours. these thing get noticed, not just the stuff done but the ability of thinking in money, and unlocks the full engineering potential in salary negotiations
- deanCommie 7y agoI assume these must be small examples on a long list of accomplishments, because 30k/year doesn't seem like it's enough to offset your salary. I have to imagine the impact of a principal engineer should be measured in the 10-100x of their salary?
- LoSboccacc 7y agoit was just a bunch of examples of stuff that was specifically done on top of my other job resps. also, not every place is the silicon valley and not every company is a fortune 500, plus some perspective about relative worth also applies - i.e. the automation stuff was calculated in time saved by the Indian based testing team, which reduces the raw impact.
- frostburg 7y agoThat's some pretty impressive ingrained bias towards rent-seekers. Why not 1.1x or the board can try doing the work?
- perl4ever 7y agoConsider a fast food business. Should the manager be satisfied with making 10% profit on french fries?
- frostburg 7y ago10% on raw materials would be losing money, but 10% on total expense, with the difference going to the workforce is fine to me. I don't see why fast foods shouldn't be cooperatives, they're not exactly capital intensive or high risk. To be clear, I wasn't referring to the board having a choice in the matter.
- alexis_fr 7y agoSorry I both agree with you but reckon 10x is about the correct ratio. It’s not rent-seeking, it’s “sharing wealth” and “diminishing inequalities”. A good engineer needs to pay for: - Administrative employees, - Office rental, - Junior members of the teams who are growing up towards seniority, - Women who are non productive but required to pass the diversity requirements and make the company look good. You may claim it’s unfair that productive members are exploited to pay for nonproductive ones, but that’s the neo-conservatives’ argument, and has been rejected by most of the Silicon Valley. I honestly think that the currebt situation is already the middle ground betweeb “pay proportional to your added value” and “diversity, equality and social responsibility requires adjusting the salaries of highest-paid engineers.”
- Haga 7y agoLeaky systemic process abstraction.