4 ms·

Reddit is made of real people too. Met multiple people there. Being miserable alone is not superior to being miserable on Reddit.

sverige 7y ago
I agree with your statement as far as it goes. I met several people irl that I had known only on Usenet back in the 90s. My question is, what are your relationships with relatives like? What about friendships with people who live nearby and share similar interests? I recognize that not everyone has family that lives nearby, and some have lost their natural families, which is very difficult. And there many who are estranged from their families for various reasons. I was estranged from my family, but that improved greatly with some considerable (and still ongoing) effort on my part, even though some of them have diagnosed mental illnesses. I guess my point is that if you have family members, it is well worth it to try to salvage what you can. If you do not have any family, it is well worth it to try to make one. Yes, those family members could be found on Reddit. Better to make the effort to have "real-life" friends and family you can see and talk to and touch daily so you don't have to be miserable alone. It can be hard to see when you're in the midst of it, though.
- el_programmador 7y ago
  Imagine what you'd be doing if there were no reddit (or any other social network for that matter)? You'd be out there trying to find real friends at meetups, clubs, gatherings, etc. don't ya? It helps a lot if you assume that internet doesn't exist for a day and see what miracles your mind comes up with then!
  - r3bl 7y ago
    This doesn't make sense when you use the term "for a day". One day isn't long enough to change anyone's habits. But it's not like it would make more sense if the term was longer. The whole reason the Internet was created was to be the network that could survive a nuclear war. It'll always be there. People communicated via the Internet way before reddit and others, and would continue doing so if they were to disappear. "Imagine living without the Internet" is a useless imagination. It's a thing of the past with no way of reappearing. If your ISP were to go down, I assume you'd just switch to mobile data. Assuming you're using two different companies, it would take quite a catastrophe for both of them to be down at the same time, at which point your survival instinct would kick in, not a desire to make meaningful relationships offline.
  - jowsie 7y ago
    These kinds of people and scenarios existed long before reddit and 'social media' in the modern sense. They were just on Usenet/IRC/web forums, heh.
  - nasalgoat 7y ago
    I used to hang out on BBSes before the internet. Introverts weren't created by the Internet, they were set free by it.
- vidarh 7y ago
  I get that you mean well, but to me this comes through as almost insulting in its presumptions of how other people feel. I for one am not miserable when I'm alone. I love my alone time. And to be clear this is not because it is rare. I make a conscious choice to be alone a lot of the time. I sometimes love time with people too, but only in small doses and only a very few people (this does not mean I can't enjoy being out in public - being around people I'm not interacting with constantly is just fine). I certainly don't want to have people around to see and talk and touch daily. The very thought is an exhausting nightmare to me.
  - lsd5you 7y ago
    It is presumptious to think that anyone could say anything constructive without generalising or insulting. You personally could be the one in a thousand who just is genuinely different, but when there are a e.g. million+ people in japan who don't leave their bedrooms and never grow up or grow out then there is obviously a new unsustainable pattern of anti-social behaviour, and it's not a stretch to say it's probably not good for the people involved - despite current trends for acceptance and sensitivity.
    - vidarh 7y ago
      > It is presumptious to think that anyone could say anything constructive without generalising or insulting. People manage to do that just fine all the time. All that's required is to write with the presumption that people might have different experiences. It's fine to suggest that some people are not living healthy lives if they don't have more social contact, and that it's a good idea to ask yourself why you might have a negative reaction to someone suggesting you have more, because everyone ought to understand their own needs and sometimes we don't. What came across as insulting was that it is worded in a way that suggests this applies to everyone, and that people with different experiences just don't know how bad we have it. That generalization was unnecessary and took away from the overall point. > when there are a e.g. million+ people in japan who don't leave their bedrooms and never grow up or grow out then there is obviously a new unsustainable pattern of anti-social behaviour And the way to address that is to with the simple qualification of addressing specifically those who are unhappy with their situation, instead of suggesting that everyone who chooses to have most of their social contact online must necessarily be miserable. I have no problems believing that lots of people are terribly lonely. At the same time I know that ironically a lot of people put a lot of energy into telling people who are not lonely to be more social. If only they'd spend that energy on people who want more contact (here's a simple one I wish more people would try: give eye contact to people you meet, and ask "how are you?" and actually wait for an answer when e.g. interacting with people in service jobs - you'll be astonished how quickly people will pour out built up emotions on near total strangers the moment someone shows the smallest sign of caring even if that sign is something as basic as actually waiting for an answer instead of just treating questions like that as meaningless greetings) instead of continuing to try to get people like me who are perfectly happy to be more social.
thrav 7y ago
I developed real friendships back when I was moderating one of the big sports subs. Went to a bachelor party for one of the other guys, and had a blast with his college friends. Reddit is what you make it.
munchbunny 7y ago
I don't think the problem is necessarily whether it's real people. The problem is that if you're not careful, Reddit becomes the upvote Olympics. You can't build a healthy social diet on just approval. Some people do that with real life. It just happens to be far easier to do on the internet because we figured out that approval is addictive and drives user engagement.
- el_programmador 7y ago
  Totally true. It also gives rise to echo chambers, people just keep circle-jerking around those of approve of them reciprocally and thus keep themselves in constant denial.
- Chathamization 7y ago
  That's a large part of the problem. Another is that the vast majority of online content and votes comes from a small minority of people who are probably mentally ill[1]. Also, the way sites like Reddit (or HN) work are also in opposition to long and thought out conversations (you have a very short window of time to participate in the discussion before it drops off the front page and effectively dies). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18881827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18881827
  - munchbunny 7y ago
    This brings up a related thought. One reason I dislike online forums (and especially Reddit's technical communities like r/programming) are that discussions never have time to evolve, so nuanced topics always just end in popular talking points. That leads to a dynamic where it's hard to try to express any real nuance, because any gray area in the discussion gets squashed when somebody jumps in with the least charitable possible interpretation of your point. I rarely ever run into any cases of "hmm you have a point but I still disagree." For example, I see this every time a discussion about code review culture comes up. The thread is always popular, and it always gets exactly two opinions: "we should be nicer" and "grow a thicker skin." God forbid there could be a situational truth to either point! You'd think from the discussion that every developer is either a caustic veteran or a thin skinned newbie who needs to get over themselves.

sverige 7y ago

I agree with your statement as far as it goes. I met several people irl that I had known only on Usenet back in the 90s. My question is, what are your relationships with relatives like? What about friendships with people who live nearby and share similar interests? I recognize that not everyone has family that lives nearby, and some have lost their natural families, which is very difficult. And there many who are estranged from their families for various reasons. I was estranged from my family, but that improved greatly with some considerable (and still ongoing) effort on my part, even though some of them have diagnosed mental illnesses. I guess my point is that if you have family members, it is well worth it to try to salvage what you can. If you do not have any family, it is well worth it to try to make one. Yes, those family members could be found on Reddit. Better to make the effort to have "real-life" friends and family you can see and talk to and touch daily so you don't have to be miserable alone. It can be hard to see when you're in the midst of it, though.

el_programmador 7y ago
Imagine what you'd be doing if there were no reddit (or any other social network for that matter)? You'd be out there trying to find real friends at meetups, clubs, gatherings, etc. don't ya? It helps a lot if you assume that internet doesn't exist for a day and see what miracles your mind comes up with then!
- r3bl 7y ago
  This doesn't make sense when you use the term "for a day". One day isn't long enough to change anyone's habits. But it's not like it would make more sense if the term was longer. The whole reason the Internet was created was to be the network that could survive a nuclear war. It'll always be there. People communicated via the Internet way before reddit and others, and would continue doing so if they were to disappear. "Imagine living without the Internet" is a useless imagination. It's a thing of the past with no way of reappearing. If your ISP were to go down, I assume you'd just switch to mobile data. Assuming you're using two different companies, it would take quite a catastrophe for both of them to be down at the same time, at which point your survival instinct would kick in, not a desire to make meaningful relationships offline.
- jowsie 7y ago
  These kinds of people and scenarios existed long before reddit and 'social media' in the modern sense. They were just on Usenet/IRC/web forums, heh.
- nasalgoat 7y ago
  I used to hang out on BBSes before the internet. Introverts weren't created by the Internet, they were set free by it.
vidarh 7y ago
I get that you mean well, but to me this comes through as almost insulting in its presumptions of how other people feel. I for one am not miserable when I'm alone. I love my alone time. And to be clear this is not because it is rare. I make a conscious choice to be alone a lot of the time. I sometimes love time with people too, but only in small doses and only a very few people (this does not mean I can't enjoy being out in public - being around people I'm not interacting with constantly is just fine). I certainly don't want to have people around to see and talk and touch daily. The very thought is an exhausting nightmare to me.
- lsd5you 7y ago
  It is presumptious to think that anyone could say anything constructive without generalising or insulting. You personally could be the one in a thousand who just is genuinely different, but when there are a e.g. million+ people in japan who don't leave their bedrooms and never grow up or grow out then there is obviously a new unsustainable pattern of anti-social behaviour, and it's not a stretch to say it's probably not good for the people involved - despite current trends for acceptance and sensitivity.
  - vidarh 7y ago
    > It is presumptious to think that anyone could say anything constructive without generalising or insulting. People manage to do that just fine all the time. All that's required is to write with the presumption that people might have different experiences. It's fine to suggest that some people are not living healthy lives if they don't have more social contact, and that it's a good idea to ask yourself why you might have a negative reaction to someone suggesting you have more, because everyone ought to understand their own needs and sometimes we don't. What came across as insulting was that it is worded in a way that suggests this applies to everyone, and that people with different experiences just don't know how bad we have it. That generalization was unnecessary and took away from the overall point. > when there are a e.g. million+ people in japan who don't leave their bedrooms and never grow up or grow out then there is obviously a new unsustainable pattern of anti-social behaviour And the way to address that is to with the simple qualification of addressing specifically those who are unhappy with their situation, instead of suggesting that everyone who chooses to have most of their social contact online must necessarily be miserable. I have no problems believing that lots of people are terribly lonely. At the same time I know that ironically a lot of people put a lot of energy into telling people who are not lonely to be more social. If only they'd spend that energy on people who want more contact (here's a simple one I wish more people would try: give eye contact to people you meet, and ask "how are you?" and actually wait for an answer when e.g. interacting with people in service jobs - you'll be astonished how quickly people will pour out built up emotions on near total strangers the moment someone shows the smallest sign of caring even if that sign is something as basic as actually waiting for an answer instead of just treating questions like that as meaningless greetings) instead of continuing to try to get people like me who are perfectly happy to be more social.

thrav 7y ago

I developed real friendships back when I was moderating one of the big sports subs. Went to a bachelor party for one of the other guys, and had a blast with his college friends. Reddit is what you make it.

munchbunny 7y ago

I don't think the problem is necessarily whether it's real people. The problem is that if you're not careful, Reddit becomes the upvote Olympics. You can't build a healthy social diet on just approval. Some people do that with real life. It just happens to be far easier to do on the internet because we figured out that approval is addictive and drives user engagement.

el_programmador 7y ago
Totally true. It also gives rise to echo chambers, people just keep circle-jerking around those of approve of them reciprocally and thus keep themselves in constant denial.
Chathamization 7y ago
That's a large part of the problem. Another is that the vast majority of online content and votes comes from a small minority of people who are probably mentally ill[1]. Also, the way sites like Reddit (or HN) work are also in opposition to long and thought out conversations (you have a very short window of time to participate in the discussion before it drops off the front page and effectively dies). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18881827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18881827
- munchbunny 7y ago
  This brings up a related thought. One reason I dislike online forums (and especially Reddit's technical communities like r/programming) are that discussions never have time to evolve, so nuanced topics always just end in popular talking points. That leads to a dynamic where it's hard to try to express any real nuance, because any gray area in the discussion gets squashed when somebody jumps in with the least charitable possible interpretation of your point. I rarely ever run into any cases of "hmm you have a point but I still disagree." For example, I see this every time a discussion about code review culture comes up. The thread is always popular, and it always gets exactly two opinions: "we should be nicer" and "grow a thicker skin." God forbid there could be a situational truth to either point! You'd think from the discussion that every developer is either a caustic veteran or a thin skinned newbie who needs to get over themselves.