4 ms·

There have almost been as many mass shootings in the US as days this year

10 points by Quanttek 7y ago

Quanttek 7y ago
Also, think about the fact that there is a Wikipedia list for mass shooting in one country this year. Most countries don't even have a list of mass shootings, let alone one for each year. The Utrecht tram shooting was for weeks in the media all around Europe (even in the US) and only 3 people died. This was an unprecedented event in the Netherlands. However, this year, the US had 20 shootings with the same number of fatalities or more
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lostmymind66 7y ago
When it comes to gang shootings in the inner city, it's way more than what's in this list.
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DuskStar 7y ago
When you use a definition like "two or more people shot in the same incident", of course there's going to be a surprising number of incidents - because that's not what most people consider to be a mass shooting.
- Quanttek 7y ago
  In most other (Western) countries, "2+ shot in one incident, excluding the perpetrator(s), at one location, at roughly the same time", would be seen as a mass shooting and probably reach national media. There's a reason why the US has the highest gun death-rate per capita in the "developed" world [1]. The problem is the high gun-ownership rate [2] - other countries also have bad mental health care, a strong media focus on suspects, or high depression rates but America's gun culture is quite unique [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... [2] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts#4eVoZS https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/u... (and the following chart)
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    > The problem is the high gun-ownership rate [2] - other countries also have bad mental health care, a strong media focus on suspects, or high depression rates but America's gun culture is quite unique This is such a trainwreck of an argument - first you exclude 'non-western' nations, and by doing so acknowledge that there are factors besides gun ownership rate that influence gun death rates (Which include gun suicides, and so probably shouldn't be included here!), and then say that "America's gun culture is quite unique" while ignoring the fact that the highest rates of gun homicides in the US occur in cities with extreme restrictions on gun ownership. Finally, gun ownership rates are not as different in Europe as you'd think - US gun ownership rates are only slightly higher than those of Europe. (Not guns per capita, % of population owning guns) Most of Europe and the anglosphere ranges between 20 and 30 % gun ownership. For instance, Canada has a gun ownership rate of ~26%. The US? ~33%. If you want to discuss gun homicide rates, fine. If you want to include countries that the US borders like Mexico, great! But comparing gun deaths (since suicides make up 2/3 of US gun deaths) against a cherrypicked subset of countries is really disingenuous.
    - Quanttek 7y ago
      > first you exclude 'non-western' nations, and by doing so acknowledge that there are factors besides gun ownership rate that influence gun death rates Of course, they are. If you live in an active conflict zone or in a country with a weak state, then surely that influences gun-related deaths (e.g. armed conflict doesn't require a lot of civilians to have guns. It's hard to control for all these variables. However, this doesn't detract from the fact that, among somewhat similar countries, gun ownership is a very strong predictor of gun-related deaths. It also doesn't detract that, amongst all nations, the US is still a leading country regarding gun deaths > Which include gun suicides, and so probably shouldn't be included here! No, they should be included, because gun ownership makes suicide more likely and much easier (see charts 11-13 in [2]): Most suicides are very spontaneous (see effectiveness of suicide fences) and guns make suicides quick and easy. > gun ownership rates are not as different in Europe as you'd think - US gun ownership rates are only slightly higher than those of Europe. (Not guns per capita, % of population owning guns) Most of Europe and the anglosphere ranges between 20 and 30 % gun ownership I couldn't find data confirming that. However, there's an interesting bit on Wikipedia on research showing the correlation between gun ownership and violence [3]. Also, this doesn't change the association between number of firearms and gun deaths: More guns also means easier access to guns. Also, owning a gun in Europe is very different: you have to meet very stringent requirements, go through various trainings, and store your guns safely. It should be obvious that having two deranged, murderous individuals, having easier access to guns, increases the likelihood of a murder. > If you want to include countries that the US borders like Mexico, great I'm not sure why that should be important, but just note that it is the availability of weapons in the US, smuggled over the border, which fuels the drug war there. [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership#Association_with_rates_of_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership#Association_with...
whenchamenia 7y ago
Yet more people die from falling in their bathrooms every day than each year from shootings. #bathroomcarpetnow Don't base your politics on a rounding error.

10 points by Quanttek 7y ago

Also, think about the fact that there is a Wikipedia list for mass shooting in one country this year. Most countries don't even have a list of mass shootings, let alone one for each year. The Utrecht tram shooting was for weeks in the media all around Europe (even in the US) and only 3 people died. This was an unprecedented event in the Netherlands. However, this year, the US had 20 shootings with the same number of fatalities or more

deleted 7y ago
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lostmymind66 7y ago

When it comes to gang shootings in the inner city, it's way more than what's in this list.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

DuskStar 7y ago

When you use a definition like "two or more people shot in the same incident", of course there's going to be a surprising number of incidents - because that's not what most people consider to be a mass shooting.

Quanttek 7y ago
In most other (Western) countries, "2+ shot in one incident, excluding the perpetrator(s), at one location, at roughly the same time", would be seen as a mass shooting and probably reach national media. There's a reason why the US has the highest gun death-rate per capita in the "developed" world [1]. The problem is the high gun-ownership rate [2] - other countries also have bad mental health care, a strong media focus on suspects, or high depression rates but America's gun culture is quite unique [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... [2] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts#4eVoZS https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/u... (and the following chart)
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > The problem is the high gun-ownership rate [2] - other countries also have bad mental health care, a strong media focus on suspects, or high depression rates but America's gun culture is quite unique This is such a trainwreck of an argument - first you exclude 'non-western' nations, and by doing so acknowledge that there are factors besides gun ownership rate that influence gun death rates (Which include gun suicides, and so probably shouldn't be included here!), and then say that "America's gun culture is quite unique" while ignoring the fact that the highest rates of gun homicides in the US occur in cities with extreme restrictions on gun ownership. Finally, gun ownership rates are not as different in Europe as you'd think - US gun ownership rates are only slightly higher than those of Europe. (Not guns per capita, % of population owning guns) Most of Europe and the anglosphere ranges between 20 and 30 % gun ownership. For instance, Canada has a gun ownership rate of ~26%. The US? ~33%. If you want to discuss gun homicide rates, fine. If you want to include countries that the US borders like Mexico, great! But comparing gun deaths (since suicides make up 2/3 of US gun deaths) against a cherrypicked subset of countries is really disingenuous.
  - Quanttek 7y ago
    > first you exclude 'non-western' nations, and by doing so acknowledge that there are factors besides gun ownership rate that influence gun death rates Of course, they are. If you live in an active conflict zone or in a country with a weak state, then surely that influences gun-related deaths (e.g. armed conflict doesn't require a lot of civilians to have guns. It's hard to control for all these variables. However, this doesn't detract from the fact that, among somewhat similar countries, gun ownership is a very strong predictor of gun-related deaths. It also doesn't detract that, amongst all nations, the US is still a leading country regarding gun deaths > Which include gun suicides, and so probably shouldn't be included here! No, they should be included, because gun ownership makes suicide more likely and much easier (see charts 11-13 in [2]): Most suicides are very spontaneous (see effectiveness of suicide fences) and guns make suicides quick and easy. > gun ownership rates are not as different in Europe as you'd think - US gun ownership rates are only slightly higher than those of Europe. (Not guns per capita, % of population owning guns) Most of Europe and the anglosphere ranges between 20 and 30 % gun ownership I couldn't find data confirming that. However, there's an interesting bit on Wikipedia on research showing the correlation between gun ownership and violence [3]. Also, this doesn't change the association between number of firearms and gun deaths: More guns also means easier access to guns. Also, owning a gun in Europe is very different: you have to meet very stringent requirements, go through various trainings, and store your guns safely. It should be obvious that having two deranged, murderous individuals, having easier access to guns, increases the likelihood of a murder. > If you want to include countries that the US borders like Mexico, great I'm not sure why that should be important, but just note that it is the availability of weapons in the US, smuggled over the border, which fuels the drug war there. [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership#Association_with_rates_of_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership#Association_with...

whenchamenia 7y ago

Yet more people die from falling in their bathrooms every day than each year from shootings. #bathroomcarpetnow Don't base your politics on a rounding error.