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Unfortunately, the assumption that "someone who's asking for help with something doesn't really know what they want or need " breeds horrible culture. This is

by lxe 7y ago

Unfortunately, the assumption that "someone who's asking for help with something doesn't really know what they want or need " breeds horrible culture. This is evident by the examples in the article and the ones in the cited sources. If someone is asking for help, don't try to shame them into explaining what "they really want". What they want is help with a morsel of a problem they ask, nothing more. If it's not the right path to a solution, they will decide, not you.

jayd16 7y ago
>shame them into explaining what "they really want". You're already starting from a toxic situation where asking for help is somehow bad. Besides, you have the same "I know better" attitude in this case, just on the opposite side. It might get on some nerves to start having to answer "why do you want to do that?" when you're in a siloed culture but eventually people adapt and it just leads to more thought out plans. Asking why just adds more context and it doesn't need to turn into a second guess of the solution. Its better to breed a culture where asking for context is considered a good thing with no emotional baggage tied to it.
chrisg3 7y ago
Exactly. And this isn't helped by the fact that reading internet text generally leads to misinterpretations of the authors intent. Note, from the article in the second example: > "Then ASK FOR WHAT YOU WANT!" Likely, the person who wrote that text was not angry, nor frustrated when writing that, but it very much seems that way to a reader.
- cheerlessbog 7y ago
  What else is intended by the capitalization? To me it means shouting and I don't do that unless I'm mad.
  - scbrg 7y ago
    Many people just use it for emphasis.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
This applies to conversations on the Internet in general (and probably to meatspace ones too) - unless there are obvious signs suggesting a different meaning, taking what someone wrote in any other way than at face value is disrespectful and rarely leads anywhere productive.
luhn 7y ago
It doesn't need to be a negative, condescending thing. Taking the time to ask "What problem are you trying to solve?" can alleviate quite a bit of frustration and wasted time. It's a simple question. It's not assuming they don't really know what they want or shaming them—You're trying to better understand the problem they're solving so you can give them a better, more holistic solution.
czr 7y ago
I agree that shaming / confronting people is not good for culture, but I disagree with the conclusion. "Y can be done (see below), but if you're actually trying to accomplish X here's a much more convenient way" is the kind of response that I appreciate most–not only has someone answered my question, but they've also helped correct whatever misunderstanding prompted me to ask about Y in the first place, and they've given me an easier way to solve X. For me, at least, a response that solves both X and Y is (if done politely) far preferable to one that only solves Y.
emilfihlman 7y ago
You are in the minority.
marblessubtext 7y ago
> If it's not the right path to a solution, they will decide, not you. This is a dangerous position to take. I have a junior dev on my team frequently asking for help on Z when X is still a problem. If I actually answer his question, what he puts out is a disaster.' Like he was having trouble with generating prime numbers. I could have answered his question, but why is he generating prime numbers? Long story short, to create an "optimal" number of threads to insert to a database because inserts were slow and he had 100k to do. Dude. Batch insert. Why are we threading, absolutely not, no. Stepping back Z, Y, X, and V and finding a better solution. 1/10th the code, 1/20th the time, better for the DB. When you have someone on your team doing things like this, absolutely ask about X.

by lxe 7y ago

jayd16 7y ago

>shame them into explaining what "they really want". You're already starting from a toxic situation where asking for help is somehow bad. Besides, you have the same "I know better" attitude in this case, just on the opposite side. It might get on some nerves to start having to answer "why do you want to do that?" when you're in a siloed culture but eventually people adapt and it just leads to more thought out plans. Asking why just adds more context and it doesn't need to turn into a second guess of the solution. Its better to breed a culture where asking for context is considered a good thing with no emotional baggage tied to it.

chrisg3 7y ago

Exactly. And this isn't helped by the fact that reading internet text generally leads to misinterpretations of the authors intent. Note, from the article in the second example: > "Then ASK FOR WHAT YOU WANT!" Likely, the person who wrote that text was not angry, nor frustrated when writing that, but it very much seems that way to a reader.

cheerlessbog 7y ago
What else is intended by the capitalization? To me it means shouting and I don't do that unless I'm mad.
- scbrg 7y ago
  Many people just use it for emphasis.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

This applies to conversations on the Internet in general (and probably to meatspace ones too) - unless there are obvious signs suggesting a different meaning, taking what someone wrote in any other way than at face value is disrespectful and rarely leads anywhere productive.

luhn 7y ago

It doesn't need to be a negative, condescending thing. Taking the time to ask "What problem are you trying to solve?" can alleviate quite a bit of frustration and wasted time. It's a simple question. It's not assuming they don't really know what they want or shaming them—You're trying to better understand the problem they're solving so you can give them a better, more holistic solution.

czr 7y ago

I agree that shaming / confronting people is not good for culture, but I disagree with the conclusion. "Y can be done (see below), but if you're actually trying to accomplish X here's a much more convenient way" is the kind of response that I appreciate most–not only has someone answered my question, but they've also helped correct whatever misunderstanding prompted me to ask about Y in the first place, and they've given me an easier way to solve X. For me, at least, a response that solves both X and Y is (if done politely) far preferable to one that only solves Y.

emilfihlman 7y ago

You are in the minority.

marblessubtext 7y ago

> If it's not the right path to a solution, they will decide, not you. This is a dangerous position to take. I have a junior dev on my team frequently asking for help on Z when X is still a problem. If I actually answer his question, what he puts out is a disaster.' Like he was having trouble with generating prime numbers. I could have answered his question, but why is he generating prime numbers? Long story short, to create an "optimal" number of threads to insert to a database because inserts were slow and he had 100k to do. Dude. Batch insert. Why are we threading, absolutely not, no. Stepping back Z, Y, X, and V and finding a better solution. 1/10th the code, 1/20th the time, better for the DB. When you have someone on your team doing things like this, absolutely ask about X.