6 ms·

BYD double-decker electric buses have been in use in Futian district of Shenzhen for a couple years now.

londons_explore 7y ago
And the rest of the world won't touch them because they break down pretty much every week. Reliability is very important for a bus, and BYD hasn't got that yet.
- Reason077 7y ago
  This has not been the experience in London which will soon have over 200 fully electric buses, most of which have BYD drivetrains. By all accounts, they have proven at least as reliable as their diesel counterparts.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    Units in Indiana and Albuquerque, NM have not been performing with the advertised range: https://www.ibj.com/articles/73113-indygos-new-electric-buses-cant-go-the-distance https://www.ibj.com/articles/73113-indygos-new-electric-buse...
    - Reason077 7y ago
      I believe the differences here for London are: - Much milder winter temperatures. Certainly nothing like the -10F experienced in Indiana. - Lower daily mileages. Even though London buses are operated intensively all day long, average speeds are low and a typical bus certainly wouldn’t exceed 200 miles in a day. There is plenty of buffer between what is demanded of the batteries and what they’re capable of.
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    > By all accounts Do you have links to the accounts?
  - ddeck 7y ago
    >they have proven at least as reliable as their diesel counterparts Things may have improved recently, but that certain was not the experience in Hong Kong: "Five Hong Kong electric buses pulled from service in under two weeks due to glitches"[1] "Hong Kong electric buses pulled from the road for third time in nine months"[2] "Trial run of five Hong Kong electric buses delayed indefinitely due to bus stop bell problems"[3] "KMB electric bus runs into trouble on first day of trial"[4] [1] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/hong-kong-electric-buses-pulled-road-third-time-nine-months https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/... [2] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/hong-kong-electric-buses-pulled-road-third-time-nine-months https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/... [3] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/2018569/trial-run-five-hong-kong-electric-buses-delayed https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/arti... [4] http://www.ejinsight.com/20170801-kmb-electric-bus-runs-into-trouble-on-first-day-of-trial/ http://www.ejinsight.com/20170801-kmb-electric-bus-runs-into...
    - melling 7y ago
      Most of those stories are from 2016. Technology improves over time. In 2011 there was a high-speed train crash in China and every questioned HSR in China. Today China had 19,000 miles of track and carries 2 billion passengers a year. It’s not hard to believe that initial electric buses had a few problems.
      - clouddrover 7y ago
        > Most of those stories are from 2016. Here are a couple from 2018 and 2019: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-20180520-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-201... https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/01/electric-bus-battery-recharge-new-flyer-byd-proterra-beb/577954/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/01/electric-bus-... > Technology improves over time. This is bus technology, not rocket surgery. The BYD buses in Albuquerque had door malfunctions, cracked and missing welds, brake issues, exposed high voltage cables, etc.: https://www.cabq.gov/mayor/news/mayor-tim-keller-byd-will-be-held-accountable-in-court https://www.cabq.gov/mayor/news/mayor-tim-keller-byd-will-be... This doesn't have anything to do with the technology. It's just bad bus manufacturing.
- Theodores 7y ago
  Nope. It is range that is the problem. Hills, hot weather and cold weather make the advertised range impossible to achieve. Despite this BYD have been successful in the rest of the world. Some purchases have been driven by politics, the results not so good. But this is how we learn. I very much like London's hybrid buses, it is so nice compared to diesel. In a diesel bus every single thing rattles, it is like being in a washing machine. The hybrid buses are a pleasant space to be in. Full electric is an upgrade on that experience. Anyway the article is about the Czech made Hyundai bus, competition that is good for the sector.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    I’m surprised we haven’t gone back to trolley buses, no need for a large battery then.
    - bobthepanda 7y ago
      Trolley wire infrastructure is not a non-zero cost, and people hate the visual obstruction of trolley wire. https://humantransit.org/2012/03/dissent-of-the-week-trolley-buses-in-wrong-place-vs-motor-buses-in-right-one.html#comments https://humantransit.org/2012/03/dissent-of-the-week-trolley...
  - D_Alex 7y ago
    >It is range that is the problem. I'm surprised... urban bus speeds in the US are below 15 mph, see below, so even a 180 mile range should give over 12 hrs operation. Electric buses are very efficient on hills and in stop-start conditions, btw. http://cityobservatory.org/urban-buses-are-slowing-down/ http://cityobservatory.org/urban-buses-are-slowing-down/
    - clouddrover 7y ago
      > Electric buses are very efficient on hills Electric buses struggle on hills. LA Metro found their BYD electric buses would stall on hills. BYD's response was that "Metro drove BYD’s buses on hills that were too steep": https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-20180520-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-201...
Reason077 7y ago
And also in London, where a trial fleet of BYD double-deckers has been operating since 2015. 68 more electric double-deckers are due in London this summer, of which 37 are from ADL-BYD (ADL bus body with BYD battery/drivetrain) and 31 from British company Optare.
bobthepanda 7y ago
IIRC they were rejected in Hong Kong because the range was crap on the city’s hilly roads.

And the rest of the world won't touch them because they break down pretty much every week. Reliability is very important for a bus, and BYD hasn't got that yet.

Reason077 7y ago
This has not been the experience in London which will soon have over 200 fully electric buses, most of which have BYD drivetrains. By all accounts, they have proven at least as reliable as their diesel counterparts.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  Units in Indiana and Albuquerque, NM have not been performing with the advertised range: https://www.ibj.com/articles/73113-indygos-new-electric-buses-cant-go-the-distance https://www.ibj.com/articles/73113-indygos-new-electric-buse...
  - Reason077 7y ago
    I believe the differences here for London are: - Much milder winter temperatures. Certainly nothing like the -10F experienced in Indiana. - Lower daily mileages. Even though London buses are operated intensively all day long, average speeds are low and a typical bus certainly wouldn’t exceed 200 miles in a day. There is plenty of buffer between what is demanded of the batteries and what they’re capable of.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  > By all accounts Do you have links to the accounts?
- ddeck 7y ago
  >they have proven at least as reliable as their diesel counterparts Things may have improved recently, but that certain was not the experience in Hong Kong: "Five Hong Kong electric buses pulled from service in under two weeks due to glitches"[1] "Hong Kong electric buses pulled from the road for third time in nine months"[2] "Trial run of five Hong Kong electric buses delayed indefinitely due to bus stop bell problems"[3] "KMB electric bus runs into trouble on first day of trial"[4] [1] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/hong-kong-electric-buses-pulled-road-third-time-nine-months https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/... [2] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/hong-kong-electric-buses-pulled-road-third-time-nine-months https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2038314/... [3] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/2018569/trial-run-five-hong-kong-electric-buses-delayed https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/arti... [4] http://www.ejinsight.com/20170801-kmb-electric-bus-runs-into-trouble-on-first-day-of-trial/ http://www.ejinsight.com/20170801-kmb-electric-bus-runs-into...
  - melling 7y ago
    Most of those stories are from 2016. Technology improves over time. In 2011 there was a high-speed train crash in China and every questioned HSR in China. Today China had 19,000 miles of track and carries 2 billion passengers a year. It’s not hard to believe that initial electric buses had a few problems.
    - clouddrover 7y ago
      > Most of those stories are from 2016. Here are a couple from 2018 and 2019: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-20180520-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-201... https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/01/electric-bus-battery-recharge-new-flyer-byd-proterra-beb/577954/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/01/electric-bus-... > Technology improves over time. This is bus technology, not rocket surgery. The BYD buses in Albuquerque had door malfunctions, cracked and missing welds, brake issues, exposed high voltage cables, etc.: https://www.cabq.gov/mayor/news/mayor-tim-keller-byd-will-be-held-accountable-in-court https://www.cabq.gov/mayor/news/mayor-tim-keller-byd-will-be... This doesn't have anything to do with the technology. It's just bad bus manufacturing.
Theodores 7y ago
Nope. It is range that is the problem. Hills, hot weather and cold weather make the advertised range impossible to achieve. Despite this BYD have been successful in the rest of the world. Some purchases have been driven by politics, the results not so good. But this is how we learn. I very much like London's hybrid buses, it is so nice compared to diesel. In a diesel bus every single thing rattles, it is like being in a washing machine. The hybrid buses are a pleasant space to be in. Full electric is an upgrade on that experience. Anyway the article is about the Czech made Hyundai bus, competition that is good for the sector.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  I’m surprised we haven’t gone back to trolley buses, no need for a large battery then.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    Trolley wire infrastructure is not a non-zero cost, and people hate the visual obstruction of trolley wire. https://humantransit.org/2012/03/dissent-of-the-week-trolley-buses-in-wrong-place-vs-motor-buses-in-right-one.html#comments https://humantransit.org/2012/03/dissent-of-the-week-trolley...
- D_Alex 7y ago
  >It is range that is the problem. I'm surprised... urban bus speeds in the US are below 15 mph, see below, so even a 180 mile range should give over 12 hrs operation. Electric buses are very efficient on hills and in stop-start conditions, btw. http://cityobservatory.org/urban-buses-are-slowing-down/ http://cityobservatory.org/urban-buses-are-slowing-down/
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    > Electric buses are very efficient on hills Electric buses struggle on hills. LA Metro found their BYD electric buses would stall on hills. BYD's response was that "Metro drove BYD’s buses on hills that were too steep": https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-20180520-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-electric-buses-201...

Reason077 7y ago

And also in London, where a trial fleet of BYD double-deckers has been operating since 2015. 68 more electric double-deckers are due in London this summer, of which 37 are from ADL-BYD (ADL bus body with BYD battery/drivetrain) and 31 from British company Optare.

bobthepanda 7y ago

IIRC they were rejected in Hong Kong because the range was crap on the city’s hilly roads.