5 ms·
I think something which should be considered, is that gut bacterial abnormality is very plausibly a consequence of autism, rather than a cause. Selective eating
by gnode 7y ago
I think something which should be considered, is that gut bacterial abnormality is very plausibly a consequence of autism, rather than a cause. Selective eating and food refusal occurs in about three quarters of children with ASD, and has been used as a diagnostic criteria (which reinforces the correlation). Poor diversity in nutrition leads to poor biodiversity in the gut flora.
That said, poor gut biodiversity could in turn lead to exacerbated presentation of symptoms, due to gut flora's involvement in neurotransmitter systems, interactions with the gut's nervous system, or simply painful intestinal distress.
- ordinaryradical 7y agoPossibly, but consider this from the article: > Crucially, these changes in gut bacteria have translated into behavioural changes. Even 18 weeks after treatment started the children had begun showing reduced symptoms of autism. After two years, only three of them still rated as severe, while eight fell below the diagnostic cut-off point for asd altogether. These eight thus now count as neurotypical.
- sambroner 7y agoWow. That is incredible.
- klipt 7y agoIf it works both directions - almost makes me wonder if there are bacteria that can manipulate our brains (causing picky eating) to get their preferred food and keep themselves in the majority in the gut. Regulatory capture for bacteria. I mean, look at what Toxoplasma gondii does to mice...
- Nadya 7y agoThere is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that actually [0]. [0] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/bies.201400071 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/bies.201400...
- dTal 7y agoKnowing what we now know, it would be surprising if that weren't the case. What's the likelihood of no bacteria figuring out that trick? Given the selection pressures involved, we might even expect most gut bacteria to do that.
- keiru 7y agoSo changing dietary habits is not just about challenging your reward system, but also starving out the invasor? Imagine a world where you can buy your food tastes through a yogurt.
- antisemiotic 7y agoFortunately, they're not influencing gut flora research to make humans treat some species preferentially. This would be way too complex for simple creatures that don't have their own nervous system.
- gowld 7y agoAnother straightforward possible mechanism is that upset stomach exacerbates behavioural systems. Consider anything you do that takes conscious effort, in life or work. Now try doing it with a headache, or on lack of sleep, or with a stomach pain. You'll do worse!
- ordinaryradical 7y agoI mean, yes, but to go from severe ASD behaviors to neurotypical is vastly different than perhaps some behavioral artifacts from a headache or stomach pain. I think your conclusion is greatly understating the result.
- gnode 7y agoI wonder whether much of the difference in severity of autism symptoms, rather than being differences in the underlying condition are explained by differences in comfort. Symptoms used to differentiate sever cases such as irritability, inattention, repetitive behaviour, mood changes, sleep disruption, and hyporeactivity are all exhibited by neurotypical people when in pain / discomfort / stress. A core feature of autism is sensory abnormality, so perhaps the symptoms present in severe cases can be explained by increased sensitivity to these negative internal stimuli. Additionally, I think it's important to note that we would discount many of these symptoms from a diagnosis, if a more observable and salient cause (e.g. an itchy skin condition) were seen. Gastrointestinal discomfort being poorly observable creates a bias.
- jschwartzi 7y agoHow likely were they to regress to the mean if we did nothing at all?
- tomrod 7y agoWe can't know without a control
- OldSchoolJohnny 7y agoThe research cited in the article directly refutes what you are positing and shows that ASD symptoms are transferable via fecal transplant.
- oldgradstudent 7y agoIN MICE.
- dang 7y agoPlease don't use uppercase for emphasis. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- parsadotsh 7y agoDoesn't change anything but I think he's referring to this twitter account: https://www.twitter.com/justsaysinmice https://www.twitter.com/justsaysinmice
- m463 7y agoI wonder if there should be a similar account for "in males". I believe many medicines are tested in males only because it would be unethical to test them in possibly pregnant females. However, one ridiculous example is birth control pills.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- dang 7y agoAh interesting. Thanks! How did you know about that?
- parsadotsh 7y agoBeen following it for a while, btw: https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelhoffman/status/1122839074375655424 https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelhoffman/status/11228390743...
- lostlogin 7y ago> Selective eating and food refusal occurs in about three quarters of children with ASD I’m sure there are differences between ASD and non-ASD kids in terms of diet, but picky and selective eating is present in a lot of children that are never diagnosed as ASD.