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I would argue that there are worse things than the sweet release of death. Living without dignity might be one of them. That being said, I'm not sure how I fe

I would argue that there are worse things than the sweet release of death. Living without dignity might be one of them. That being said, I'm not sure how I feel about having "cell phone" in that list of things that are considered necessities.

zeendo 7y ago
Cellphones are cheap computers these days. It's very hard to participate in today's economy, much less its education system, without internet access.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  OTOH cable television is an unnecessary, overpriced drain when most people can receive OTA programming.
chadlavi 7y ago
Land line phones are more expensive, and require a stable address; public phones are scarce and getting scarcer. Mobile phones are a necessity.
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  You don't need a phone 24/7/265. As far as cost, looks like land line service is 15-30$ a month with things like caller ID, call waiting and voicemail. That's generally much cheaper than any mobile phone with a data plan and doesn't require a phone that costs hundreds of dollars. Even MVNO solutions like Mint start at 45$ every three months before tax and sim shipping. You also don't need payphones to be abundant, From 1990 to 1999 (ages 5-14) I used a payphone maybe a dozen times and nearly all of those were to have discussions with friends that I didn't want my parents to hear so I rode my bike 2 blocks to Little Caesars and used the phone in their parking lot. And I don't think a single time after that yet I didn't have a cellphone until 2004. I still rarely talk on the phone, I will go months without using a single minute. I will listen to voicemails a few times a week but I will either go see the person or if it is a business I need to call back I'll do so at my convenience, not when they want to talk to me.
  - dmitriid 7y ago
    A person on the internet is arguing that a landline with caller ID, call waiting and voicemail is sufficient. > You also don't need payphones to be abundant, From 1990 to 1999 (ages 5-14) I used a payphone maybe a dozen times and nearly all of those were to have discussions with friends that I didn't want my parents to hear so I rode my bike 2 blocks to Little Caesars Ah yes. The needs of a child/teen are surely the needs of a grown person who will need to communicate with potential employers, banks, landlords, schools etc. which are all becoming almost exclusively online.
    - ryanmercer 7y ago
      >Ah yes. The needs of a child/teen are surely the needs of a grown person who will need to communicate with potential employers, banks, landlords, schools etc. I've been working, taxable above the board income (google it, lots of conditions for this including paper delivery which is what I did), since I was 12 years old. I've had a bank account since I was 8. There is no realistic condition where the majority of the population needs to be tethered to a phone number 24/7/365. If you have a job that requires you to be on call, certainly, but in that case your employer should be providing the phone or reimbursing the cost. Generally people in these situations are paid rather well also.
      - rland 7y ago
        Things have changed a lot for many low wage workers since about 08 or so. Schedules are set no more than a few days in advance. They're communicated either by an app or by text message. They can be highly variable and it's expected that the employee keep up, or else miss a shift and be fired. A cell phone is virtually required. (And never provided by the employer).
      - dmitriid 7y ago
        You somehow missed bothe the last 15 years or so, and the most important bits of my response. The world is increasingly online. Banks are closing down branches because most things can be done online. Schools are sending school reports and teacher communications via email. Job applications for high(er) paying jobs are becoming almost exclusively done via online forms. Ongoing communication with recruiters is being done via email. Doctors increasingly communicate through email. More importantly, classes and courses, distance learning, tutors (that is all the things you need to educate yourself and get a better job) are almost exclusively online now (and once online, available and affordable to anyone). But yeah. If you are a 12-year-old paper delivery boy, you will not need a smart phone and internet. Edit: your hypocrisy is especially rich considering that you're applying to YC Winter 2019 [1]. You're sending them via a fixed landline from Little Ceasars where you biked, right? [1] https://www.ryanmercer.com/ryansthoughts/2018/10/30/an-open-letter-to-yc https://www.ryanmercer.com/ryansthoughts/2018/10/30/an-open-... (Your site is in your profile).
deogeo 7y ago
Cell phone could be necessary for many jobs (like deliveries). And cell phone + mobile data can be a cheaper alternative to computer + landline internet, which is pretty essential nowadays. Even if you argue you can do without, the money you'd spend on transportation to do in person what you'd otherwise do online would outweigh the price of a cell-phone. Not to mention the time you save, which can be used to avoid need to spend on childcare, or bring in more money with an extra job, or by using that time to cook, or... (haste makes waste).
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  >Cell phone could be necessary for many jobs (like deliveries) Then it should be provided by the employer. I don't know how old you are but, we got by without mass adoption of cellphones in the 90's just fine. You had an answering machine, people called you and if they didn't get you they left a message and you got home and pressed play. We also survived just fine without GPS and digital maps, people actually knew how to look at maps and write down directions. The only time I can even think of when someone would need to install a location app would be for gig economy stuff. Ride share and food delivery apps are often break-even at best when maintenance/upkeep is factored in and are not valid income sources for low-income individuals (if they even have a vehicle that meets the insurance requirements of the company). You don't even need to own a computer or have internet access at home, libraries exist. They have computers and internet for public use with the general requirement being a (free) library card. Businesses like FedEx Office also offer computer access for a modest fee https://www.fedex.com/en-us/office/computer-rental.html https://www.fedex.com/en-us/office/computer-rental.html .
  - deogeo 7y ago
    > Then it should be provided by the employer. Unfortunately they don't live in should-be land. And when an employer asks them to send them a CV via e-mail, or to install the app which they use to send delivery pick-up/drop-off locations, "I didn't need these things in the 90s!" won't fly.

zeendo 7y ago

Cellphones are cheap computers these days. It's very hard to participate in today's economy, much less its education system, without internet access.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
OTOH cable television is an unnecessary, overpriced drain when most people can receive OTA programming.

chadlavi 7y ago

Land line phones are more expensive, and require a stable address; public phones are scarce and getting scarcer. Mobile phones are a necessity.

ryanmercer 7y ago
You don't need a phone 24/7/265. As far as cost, looks like land line service is 15-30$ a month with things like caller ID, call waiting and voicemail. That's generally much cheaper than any mobile phone with a data plan and doesn't require a phone that costs hundreds of dollars. Even MVNO solutions like Mint start at 45$ every three months before tax and sim shipping. You also don't need payphones to be abundant, From 1990 to 1999 (ages 5-14) I used a payphone maybe a dozen times and nearly all of those were to have discussions with friends that I didn't want my parents to hear so I rode my bike 2 blocks to Little Caesars and used the phone in their parking lot. And I don't think a single time after that yet I didn't have a cellphone until 2004. I still rarely talk on the phone, I will go months without using a single minute. I will listen to voicemails a few times a week but I will either go see the person or if it is a business I need to call back I'll do so at my convenience, not when they want to talk to me.
- dmitriid 7y ago
  A person on the internet is arguing that a landline with caller ID, call waiting and voicemail is sufficient. > You also don't need payphones to be abundant, From 1990 to 1999 (ages 5-14) I used a payphone maybe a dozen times and nearly all of those were to have discussions with friends that I didn't want my parents to hear so I rode my bike 2 blocks to Little Caesars Ah yes. The needs of a child/teen are surely the needs of a grown person who will need to communicate with potential employers, banks, landlords, schools etc. which are all becoming almost exclusively online.
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    >Ah yes. The needs of a child/teen are surely the needs of a grown person who will need to communicate with potential employers, banks, landlords, schools etc. I've been working, taxable above the board income (google it, lots of conditions for this including paper delivery which is what I did), since I was 12 years old. I've had a bank account since I was 8. There is no realistic condition where the majority of the population needs to be tethered to a phone number 24/7/365. If you have a job that requires you to be on call, certainly, but in that case your employer should be providing the phone or reimbursing the cost. Generally people in these situations are paid rather well also.
    - rland 7y ago
      Things have changed a lot for many low wage workers since about 08 or so. Schedules are set no more than a few days in advance. They're communicated either by an app or by text message. They can be highly variable and it's expected that the employee keep up, or else miss a shift and be fired. A cell phone is virtually required. (And never provided by the employer).
    - dmitriid 7y ago
      You somehow missed bothe the last 15 years or so, and the most important bits of my response. The world is increasingly online. Banks are closing down branches because most things can be done online. Schools are sending school reports and teacher communications via email. Job applications for high(er) paying jobs are becoming almost exclusively done via online forms. Ongoing communication with recruiters is being done via email. Doctors increasingly communicate through email. More importantly, classes and courses, distance learning, tutors (that is all the things you need to educate yourself and get a better job) are almost exclusively online now (and once online, available and affordable to anyone). But yeah. If you are a 12-year-old paper delivery boy, you will not need a smart phone and internet. Edit: your hypocrisy is especially rich considering that you're applying to YC Winter 2019 [1]. You're sending them via a fixed landline from Little Ceasars where you biked, right? [1] https://www.ryanmercer.com/ryansthoughts/2018/10/30/an-open-letter-to-yc https://www.ryanmercer.com/ryansthoughts/2018/10/30/an-open-... (Your site is in your profile).

deogeo 7y ago

Cell phone could be necessary for many jobs (like deliveries). And cell phone + mobile data can be a cheaper alternative to computer + landline internet, which is pretty essential nowadays. Even if you argue you can do without, the money you'd spend on transportation to do in person what you'd otherwise do online would outweigh the price of a cell-phone. Not to mention the time you save, which can be used to avoid need to spend on childcare, or bring in more money with an extra job, or by using that time to cook, or... (haste makes waste).

ryanmercer 7y ago
>Cell phone could be necessary for many jobs (like deliveries) Then it should be provided by the employer. I don't know how old you are but, we got by without mass adoption of cellphones in the 90's just fine. You had an answering machine, people called you and if they didn't get you they left a message and you got home and pressed play. We also survived just fine without GPS and digital maps, people actually knew how to look at maps and write down directions. The only time I can even think of when someone would need to install a location app would be for gig economy stuff. Ride share and food delivery apps are often break-even at best when maintenance/upkeep is factored in and are not valid income sources for low-income individuals (if they even have a vehicle that meets the insurance requirements of the company). You don't even need to own a computer or have internet access at home, libraries exist. They have computers and internet for public use with the general requirement being a (free) library card. Businesses like FedEx Office also offer computer access for a modest fee https://www.fedex.com/en-us/office/computer-rental.html https://www.fedex.com/en-us/office/computer-rental.html .
- deogeo 7y ago
  > Then it should be provided by the employer. Unfortunately they don't live in should-be land. And when an employer asks them to send them a CV via e-mail, or to install the app which they use to send delivery pick-up/drop-off locations, "I didn't need these things in the 90s!" won't fly.