4 ms·

It's mindblowing how so many developers are quick to build on the Java ecosystem... an ecosystem backed by a company so hell-bent on stifling innovation.

jryan49 7y ago
People have been using Java for decades, when it wasn't even backed by Oracle. It's impractical to think people can just throw out millions of lines of Java code and hours of experience and knowledge just because of some "omg Oracle evil" argument.
panpanna 7y ago
Java was created by Sun. Oracle bought them mainly to sue Google. Kotlin from jetbrains is where developer mindshare is today ;)
- pier25 7y ago
  But Kotlin does run on Oracle's JVM, no?
  - jryan49 7y ago
    Runs on OpenJDK as well...
    - icebraining 7y ago
      That's Oracle's too.
      - lma21 7y ago
        Really? In what way does it differ from Oracle Java SE ?
        geodel 7y ago
        Since Java 11 only in commercial support model. Code bits are about same.
        __HYde 7y ago
        In that it is GPL+Link Exception licensed. The copyright still belongs to Oracle. See this[0] example: > Copyright (c) 1997, 2007, Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved. > This code is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License version 2 only [0] http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk6/jdk6/jdk/file/tip/src/share/classes/java/util/List.java http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk6/jdk6/jdk/file/tip/src/share/...
      - jryan49 7y ago
        But it's open source. GPL. And it's not just Oracle that contributes to Java... (OpenJDK and Java Community, Red Hat, Azul Systems, IBM, Apple Inc, SAP SE)... We've had Amazon and AdoptOpenJDK compile and distribute their own binaries as well. We could fork it if we had to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK
the8472 7y ago
OpenJDK is under GPL (+exceptions) now, it wasn't at the time. As long as you don't use oracle's binary builds these concerns don't apply anymore.
- alfalfasprout 7y ago
  It's GPL but still predominantly influenced and largely developed by Oracle. They won't be responsive to the needs and wants of the community and are backed by evil business practices.
duxup 7y ago
How many developers make that decision as far as work goes?
- mcbutterbunz 7y ago
  Every developer that continues to use Java or takes on a project that uses Java makes that decision, either explicitly or not. The market for Java developers exist because Java developers keep developing in Java. I'm not arguing for OP though, I'm just saying that we all have a choice in what technology to use.
  - pier25 7y ago
    Many developers do not have a say as to what technology to use in a company.
exabrial 7y ago
You may want to consider this affects literally every piece of software in every language that has ever called into another library.

jryan49 7y ago

People have been using Java for decades, when it wasn't even backed by Oracle. It's impractical to think people can just throw out millions of lines of Java code and hours of experience and knowledge just because of some "omg Oracle evil" argument.

panpanna 7y ago

Java was created by Sun. Oracle bought them mainly to sue Google. Kotlin from jetbrains is where developer mindshare is today ;)

pier25 7y ago
But Kotlin does run on Oracle's JVM, no?
- jryan49 7y ago
  Runs on OpenJDK as well...
  - icebraining 7y ago
    That's Oracle's too.
    - lma21 7y ago
      Really? In what way does it differ from Oracle Java SE ?
      - geodel 7y ago
        Since Java 11 only in commercial support model. Code bits are about same.
      - __HYde 7y ago
        In that it is GPL+Link Exception licensed. The copyright still belongs to Oracle. See this[0] example: > Copyright (c) 1997, 2007, Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved. > This code is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License version 2 only [0] http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk6/jdk6/jdk/file/tip/src/share/classes/java/util/List.java http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk6/jdk6/jdk/file/tip/src/share/...
    - jryan49 7y ago
      But it's open source. GPL. And it's not just Oracle that contributes to Java... (OpenJDK and Java Community, Red Hat, Azul Systems, IBM, Apple Inc, SAP SE)... We've had Amazon and AdoptOpenJDK compile and distribute their own binaries as well. We could fork it if we had to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK

the8472 7y ago

OpenJDK is under GPL (+exceptions) now, it wasn't at the time. As long as you don't use oracle's binary builds these concerns don't apply anymore.

alfalfasprout 7y ago
It's GPL but still predominantly influenced and largely developed by Oracle. They won't be responsive to the needs and wants of the community and are backed by evil business practices.

duxup 7y ago

How many developers make that decision as far as work goes?

mcbutterbunz 7y ago
Every developer that continues to use Java or takes on a project that uses Java makes that decision, either explicitly or not. The market for Java developers exist because Java developers keep developing in Java. I'm not arguing for OP though, I'm just saying that we all have a choice in what technology to use.
- pier25 7y ago
  Many developers do not have a say as to what technology to use in a company.

exabrial 7y ago

You may want to consider this affects literally every piece of software in every language that has ever called into another library.