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It's hardly undervalued. Another one mentioned too much is "empathy". I feel like these are such softball answers, as no one will say no, this is bullshit.

stronglikedan 7y ago
It's definitely undervalued by engineers themselves. I.e., the majority don't seem to treat this skill as a priority in their professional development. However, it's definitely not undervalued by the companies that hire them. Especially as they progress through their careers, where they will experience a glass-ceiling affect if they have not sharpened that skill. EDIT: Fixed stupid autocorrect error (thanks sokoloff). I wish browser inputs had grammar hints as well as spelling correction.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Though I was a "pretty good or better" software engineer, it's almost surely the case that I've made more career gains from English-language writing than code-writing during my career. (Normally I'd let this pass without comment, but because of the specific topic of this comment chain, you mean "glass-ceiling effect" not "affect" there.)
- sanderjd 7y ago
  I think this is true inside a company, but it is another example of how weird our hiring techniques are. Writing plays basically no part in the hiring process. So for those engineers who have progressed by sharpening that skill, it is jarring to find that the barrier to their next job takes absolutely no account of it. You can spend years impacting or entirely setting the technical direction of a project or entire company through your writing (and verbal communication as well), and then find that all you're asked during your interview for your next job is to solve some made up problem using code on a whiteboard. It's bizarre.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Your comment made me realize that even when we hire execs/senior execs, I can't recall ever specifically evaluating their writing skills. I only recall doing so for dedicated comms people, but it's just as relevant for execs and yet we don't seem to do it there either.
daveslash 7y ago
Writing well may not be undervalued from a managerial standpoint, but I think many individual engineers undervalue developing good writing skills. That assessment is based on personal & anecdotal experience. Writing skills are a subset of communication skills. Communication is largely "getting the idea(s) in my head into your head with as little ambiguity and confusion as possible". Once a team is is reasonably large and diverse, this becomes very valuable and important to the individual engineer.
sanderjd 7y ago
It definitely is undervalued. There is very direct evidence of this: technical writing plays exactly zero role in the hiring process. That process tends to be more than 90% or so focused on coding, and the other 10% is not writing, it is some combination of credentials, knowledge of current trends in the field, ability to seem like you would fit in at the company, and drawing system diagrams. But technical writing - in code documentation, design documents, task definitions, bug reports, emails, and chats - is often the greater portion of my job in a week, and it is pretty much always the more important part. I agree a bit more that "empathy" is sometimes used in a BS-y way, but at its core it just means seeing things from more than only your own perspective. Which is definitely an important thing to do. I would probably agree that it is undervalued, though there seems to be more awareness or at least lip service to it than to the importance of writing.
munificent 7y ago
This is such a weird take. Your own comment here is an example of writing for humans that uses emotional language to try to persuade an audience. By writing this comment at all, you imply that your comment is wrong.

stronglikedan 7y ago

It's definitely undervalued by engineers themselves. I.e., the majority don't seem to treat this skill as a priority in their professional development. However, it's definitely not undervalued by the companies that hire them. Especially as they progress through their careers, where they will experience a glass-ceiling affect if they have not sharpened that skill. EDIT: Fixed stupid autocorrect error (thanks sokoloff). I wish browser inputs had grammar hints as well as spelling correction.

sokoloff 7y ago
Though I was a "pretty good or better" software engineer, it's almost surely the case that I've made more career gains from English-language writing than code-writing during my career. (Normally I'd let this pass without comment, but because of the specific topic of this comment chain, you mean "glass-ceiling effect" not "affect" there.)
sanderjd 7y ago
I think this is true inside a company, but it is another example of how weird our hiring techniques are. Writing plays basically no part in the hiring process. So for those engineers who have progressed by sharpening that skill, it is jarring to find that the barrier to their next job takes absolutely no account of it. You can spend years impacting or entirely setting the technical direction of a project or entire company through your writing (and verbal communication as well), and then find that all you're asked during your interview for your next job is to solve some made up problem using code on a whiteboard. It's bizarre.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Your comment made me realize that even when we hire execs/senior execs, I can't recall ever specifically evaluating their writing skills. I only recall doing so for dedicated comms people, but it's just as relevant for execs and yet we don't seem to do it there either.

daveslash 7y ago

Writing well may not be undervalued from a managerial standpoint, but I think many individual engineers undervalue developing good writing skills. That assessment is based on personal & anecdotal experience. Writing skills are a subset of communication skills. Communication is largely "getting the idea(s) in my head into your head with as little ambiguity and confusion as possible". Once a team is is reasonably large and diverse, this becomes very valuable and important to the individual engineer.

sanderjd 7y ago

It definitely is undervalued. There is very direct evidence of this: technical writing plays exactly zero role in the hiring process. That process tends to be more than 90% or so focused on coding, and the other 10% is not writing, it is some combination of credentials, knowledge of current trends in the field, ability to seem like you would fit in at the company, and drawing system diagrams. But technical writing - in code documentation, design documents, task definitions, bug reports, emails, and chats - is often the greater portion of my job in a week, and it is pretty much always the more important part. I agree a bit more that "empathy" is sometimes used in a BS-y way, but at its core it just means seeing things from more than only your own perspective. Which is definitely an important thing to do. I would probably agree that it is undervalued, though there seems to be more awareness or at least lip service to it than to the importance of writing.

munificent 7y ago

This is such a weird take. Your own comment here is an example of writing for humans that uses emotional language to try to persuade an audience. By writing this comment at all, you imply that your comment is wrong.