5 ms·

This is a totally valid move in my opinion, as well as just circumventing the trainwreck of a healthcare system to seek treatment overseas. If congress continu

This is a totally valid move in my opinion, as well as just circumventing the trainwreck of a healthcare system to seek treatment overseas. If congress continues to be negligent in its duties then this is really the only viable path forward for many people. If a large enough percentage of people bail on their student loans/medical debt then eventually dozens of predatory banks and "medical billing" companies will go out of business and then we can actually start to change things.

rayiner 7y ago
By "dozens of predatory banks" and "medical billing companies" you mean "the federal government" (who is owed 92% of student loan debt) and "hospitals and doctors offices" right?
- oldjokes 7y ago
  Absolutely. I am excited by the prospect of hospitals shutting down and doctors being unable to find a job, it's long overdue for them to finally come back down to earth. I can't imagine a quicker way to reform healthcare than that. It's probably our best case scenario right now with a non-functional government. Student loans are a bit more complicated, but yes absolutely I expect to see massive defaults hurting the federal balance sheet and for schools who failed their students to start shutting down. This isn't a bad thing, it's healthy.
  - gok 7y ago
    How would students defaulting on their debt cause the schools to shut down? They get the tuition up front.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      Student loans would presumably not be given if the degree program isn't able to get you a "good" job after finishing it. Nothing wrong with getting a worthless degree: if you are into art you should get an art degree. However you should first get a good job that pays your bills and pay for that degree from your own fun money. As a society I help with your basic education because the value of everybody knowing how to read and do math makes it worth it.
      - gok 7y ago
        >Student loans would presumably not be given if the degree program isn't able to get you a "good" job after finishing it. Er, that's pretty much how we got here, they have been and are being given. Government-backed student loans have no requirement that they be spent on degrees that are lucrative.
        bluGill 7y ago
        That can change. The implication that government is choosing which degrees are worthwhile is scary...
microcolonel 7y ago
But who pays? The fools who bought the loans, or the public who mostly paid theirs (if they ever took any to begin with)? I suspect that everyone will pay, despite a minority of people benefiting, that hardly seems just. I don't think it's predatory, I think the lendee is a fool being led by the blind; but does that make it right for it to suddenly be everyone else's burden? People make dumb decisions that affect only them all the time; when is it suddenly my business to subsidize people's personal mistakes? Are they even mistakes at all, if the debt is forgiven without prejudice? I don't want to live in a world where taking a loan you have no intention of paying is not a mistake. Also, AFAIK a huge majority of student loans are held directly by the Federal government (which is the other reason I fear "forgiveness" is on the horizon); assuming you don't mean to call the Federal government a "predatory bank".
- oldjokes 7y ago
  We could slice 10% (maybe less) off the military budget and pay for college for everyone, forever. This "who pays" nonsense is just that: nonsense. I'm sure the Navy would find a way to make do with a mere nine aircraft carriers. If you're worried about freeloaders getting welfare they don't deserve then slashing the insanely corrupt grifting that goes on every day in DHS/Defense should be your top priority.
  - drocer88 7y ago
    Perhaps we could cut back on entitlements , too. That would bring bigger savings and help with the governmental fiscal responsibility thing. Lower debt would let people keep more of their money to spend on making their lives better.
    - tehjoker 7y ago
      The point is to make life easier for people, not harder.
    - MisterBastahrd 7y ago
      Fun thing about "personal fiscal responsibility" is that almost everyone preaching about it when talking about entitlements have either never been poor in their lives or are grifters looking for acceptance from those who have never been poor in their lives.
at-fates-hands 7y ago
> eventually dozens of predatory banks The government completely took over student loans in 2010.
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  No they didn't. Source: took out a student loan last year.
  - at-fates-hands 7y ago
    Yes they did. Student Loan Overhaul Approved by Congress - https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/politics/26loans.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/politics/26loans.html Ending one of the fiercest lobbying fights in Washington, Congress voted Thursday to force commercial banks out of the federal student loan market, cutting off billions of dollars in profits in a sweeping restructuring of financial-aid programs and redirecting most of the money to new education initiatives. The revamping of student-loan programs was included in — if overshadowed by — the final health care package. The vote was 56 to 43 in the Senate and 220 to 207 in the House, with Republicans unanimously opposed in both chambers. Although private banks will no longer be allowed to make student loans with federal money, many will continue to earn income by servicing those loans. The Congressional Budget Office said the direct-lending approach would save taxpayers about $61 billion over 10 years. Roughly $40 billion of the savings will be redirected to higher education. Education programs will get an additional $10 billion from the health care package.
navigatesol 7y ago
>If a large enough percentage of people bail on their student loans/medical debt then eventually dozens of predatory banks and "medical billing" companies will go out of business and then we can actually start to change things. Pretty naive view of the way things work. The more likely outcome is that those in need will be denied service in the future, either medical or financial. Or do you think we should force employees and medical staff to service people who will not pay for said service? How will that work? I realize the entire situation is a mess, but simply bailing on your obligations to "teach these people a lesson" will backfire. Case in point: you think the bank is hurt by your defaulting your $50,000 in obligations? They have a lien on your personal assets, and the number is insignificant to the size of their balance sheet.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
siffland 7y ago
How is this a valid move. You bought a service and failed to pay for it. How is this different from predatory payday loans. Sure it is on a larger scale, but do you agree that if you get a payday loan you can leave the country and not pay for it. K-12 education is a right in the US, you get to go to school for free. College is, for better or worse, a paid for service. You chose to go and you signed the paperwork. Medical is a bit different, you certainly didn't ask to have medical conditions (most of the time). So I can't bundle the healthcare system with the Educational systems when it comes to paying back debt.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Lenders should be pricing in the risk of not being paid back, aka figuring out the interest rate, which is their job.

rayiner 7y ago

By "dozens of predatory banks" and "medical billing companies" you mean "the federal government" (who is owed 92% of student loan debt) and "hospitals and doctors offices" right?

oldjokes 7y ago
Absolutely. I am excited by the prospect of hospitals shutting down and doctors being unable to find a job, it's long overdue for them to finally come back down to earth. I can't imagine a quicker way to reform healthcare than that. It's probably our best case scenario right now with a non-functional government. Student loans are a bit more complicated, but yes absolutely I expect to see massive defaults hurting the federal balance sheet and for schools who failed their students to start shutting down. This isn't a bad thing, it's healthy.
- gok 7y ago
  How would students defaulting on their debt cause the schools to shut down? They get the tuition up front.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    Student loans would presumably not be given if the degree program isn't able to get you a "good" job after finishing it. Nothing wrong with getting a worthless degree: if you are into art you should get an art degree. However you should first get a good job that pays your bills and pay for that degree from your own fun money. As a society I help with your basic education because the value of everybody knowing how to read and do math makes it worth it.
    - gok 7y ago
      >Student loans would presumably not be given if the degree program isn't able to get you a "good" job after finishing it. Er, that's pretty much how we got here, they have been and are being given. Government-backed student loans have no requirement that they be spent on degrees that are lucrative.
      - bluGill 7y ago
        That can change. The implication that government is choosing which degrees are worthwhile is scary...

microcolonel 7y ago

But who pays? The fools who bought the loans, or the public who mostly paid theirs (if they ever took any to begin with)? I suspect that everyone will pay, despite a minority of people benefiting, that hardly seems just. I don't think it's predatory, I think the lendee is a fool being led by the blind; but does that make it right for it to suddenly be everyone else's burden? People make dumb decisions that affect only them all the time; when is it suddenly my business to subsidize people's personal mistakes? Are they even mistakes at all, if the debt is forgiven without prejudice? I don't want to live in a world where taking a loan you have no intention of paying is not a mistake. Also, AFAIK a huge majority of student loans are held directly by the Federal government (which is the other reason I fear "forgiveness" is on the horizon); assuming you don't mean to call the Federal government a "predatory bank".

oldjokes 7y ago
We could slice 10% (maybe less) off the military budget and pay for college for everyone, forever. This "who pays" nonsense is just that: nonsense. I'm sure the Navy would find a way to make do with a mere nine aircraft carriers. If you're worried about freeloaders getting welfare they don't deserve then slashing the insanely corrupt grifting that goes on every day in DHS/Defense should be your top priority.
- drocer88 7y ago
  Perhaps we could cut back on entitlements , too. That would bring bigger savings and help with the governmental fiscal responsibility thing. Lower debt would let people keep more of their money to spend on making their lives better.
  - tehjoker 7y ago
    The point is to make life easier for people, not harder.
  - MisterBastahrd 7y ago
    Fun thing about "personal fiscal responsibility" is that almost everyone preaching about it when talking about entitlements have either never been poor in their lives or are grifters looking for acceptance from those who have never been poor in their lives.

at-fates-hands 7y ago

> eventually dozens of predatory banks The government completely took over student loans in 2010.

lazyasciiart 7y ago
No they didn't. Source: took out a student loan last year.
- at-fates-hands 7y ago
  Yes they did. Student Loan Overhaul Approved by Congress - https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/politics/26loans.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/politics/26loans.html Ending one of the fiercest lobbying fights in Washington, Congress voted Thursday to force commercial banks out of the federal student loan market, cutting off billions of dollars in profits in a sweeping restructuring of financial-aid programs and redirecting most of the money to new education initiatives. The revamping of student-loan programs was included in — if overshadowed by — the final health care package. The vote was 56 to 43 in the Senate and 220 to 207 in the House, with Republicans unanimously opposed in both chambers. Although private banks will no longer be allowed to make student loans with federal money, many will continue to earn income by servicing those loans. The Congressional Budget Office said the direct-lending approach would save taxpayers about $61 billion over 10 years. Roughly $40 billion of the savings will be redirected to higher education. Education programs will get an additional $10 billion from the health care package.

navigatesol 7y ago

>If a large enough percentage of people bail on their student loans/medical debt then eventually dozens of predatory banks and "medical billing" companies will go out of business and then we can actually start to change things. Pretty naive view of the way things work. The more likely outcome is that those in need will be denied service in the future, either medical or financial. Or do you think we should force employees and medical staff to service people who will not pay for said service? How will that work? I realize the entire situation is a mess, but simply bailing on your obligations to "teach these people a lesson" will backfire. Case in point: you think the bank is hurt by your defaulting your $50,000 in obligations? They have a lien on your personal assets, and the number is insignificant to the size of their balance sheet.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

siffland 7y ago

How is this a valid move. You bought a service and failed to pay for it. How is this different from predatory payday loans. Sure it is on a larger scale, but do you agree that if you get a payday loan you can leave the country and not pay for it. K-12 education is a right in the US, you get to go to school for free. College is, for better or worse, a paid for service. You chose to go and you signed the paperwork. Medical is a bit different, you certainly didn't ask to have medical conditions (most of the time). So I can't bundle the healthcare system with the Educational systems when it comes to paying back debt.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
Lenders should be pricing in the risk of not being paid back, aka figuring out the interest rate, which is their job.