23 ms·
Eating Jell-O with Chopsticks
- oftenwrong 7y agoI see this as hacking the overbearing regulation of the built environment. More about the "stealth triplex": https://granolashotgun.com/2017/07/17/the-stealth-triplex/ https://granolashotgun.com/2017/07/17/the-stealth-triplex/ Building an outdoor kitchen setup: https://granolashotgun.com/2018/05/08/the-mangiapocalypse/ https://granolashotgun.com/2018/05/08/the-mangiapocalypse/ >A garden hose attached to a spigot and a galvanized bucket work wonders as an outdoor sink. Camp soap made for outdoor use is garden friendly and nontoxic so waste water can be used to irrigate fruit trees. I hasten to mention that an outdoor sink plumbed with a pipe would have set off a cascade of government regulations and prohibitions. But a garden hose and a bucket? No problem. Why ask for trouble with the authorities? Building a backyard cottage: https://granolashotgun.com/2017/06/14/the-bitter-suite/ https://granolashotgun.com/2017/06/14/the-bitter-suite/ >I attempted to build a granny cottage in the back half acre behind the main house. I hired a local architect who walked me through the legal parameters. Then I decided to do the rational thing instead. Nothing. The numbers didn’t add up. It wasn’t even close. So I reverse engineered what was legal as-of-right without permits, fees, or inspections. 120 square feet, no more than 12 feet tall, no electricity or plumbing. Full stop.
- AWildC182 7y agoI know a guy who worked a purchasing project for garden hoses. They're made out of so much low grade regrind I would never use them for drinking/cooking... Also, they breed bacteria like crazy when left in the sun.
- coryrc 7y agoAny suggestion on what would be a safe substitute?
- achenatx 7y agocopper pipes with a screw on fitting at the end that is removable.
- coryrc 7y agoI meant for the same use as a garden hose (flexible, removeable), though that was not obvious from the context.
- robotnixon 7y agoThey make drinking water hoses for RVs. Could probably just buy one of those. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Camco-25ft-TastePURE-Drinking-Water/dp/B003E1Q952?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Camco-25ft-TastePURE-Drinking-Water/d...
- coryrc 7y agoReview: Label says "Allow water to flush through hose before drinking"-then it's not potable safe!!! https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R38UUMLVROEK9E/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B003E1Q952 https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R38UUMLVROEK9E/re...
- zrobotics 7y agoThat's mostly due to the fact that the ends are not sealed during shipping: I have seen similar suggestions for permanent plui2peoducts like PEX
- sonofhans 7y agoPEX - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linked_polyethylene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linked_polyethylene. It's well-established technology for indoor plumbing. It's not as flexible as a garden hose, but it is suitable for potable water. It's primary drawback is UV breakdown -- you can't use it where the sun will see it.
- 7y ago
- chrisdhal 7y agoAs a kid growing up in the 1970s drinking out of the garden hose was considered normal. We survived.
- aargh_aargh 7y agosurvivor bias? (just kidding)
- tntn 7y agoDitto, but late 1990s instead of 1970s. I survived (so far) as well :)
- adamson 7y agoI still do that if I come across one when I'm thirsty. This is the first I've heard of their dangers!
- yellowapple 7y agoSame here, early 90's. I actually liked the taste of the hose water from my childhood home more than any other water I've ever drank.
- JudgeWapner 7y agoBut you didn't live in a dwelling that was plumbed with garden hose. Also I suspect that the use of recycled materials was less prevalent back then. Finally, toxin exposure isn't a binary thing. Hypothetically, if the hose somehow destroyed 1% of your kidney or liver function, it would still be harmful whether you perceived an effect or not.
- userbinator 7y agoDrinking water out of lead pipe was considered normal for a while too... and the similarity of this situation is that drinking out of garden hose normally means you're getting water that's only spent seconds flowing through it, instead of water that's been sitting in and absorbing contaminants for a while.
- technofiend 7y agoMy father's addition to his cabin has a one inch gap between the two buildings and a door. Technically allowed in his little Connecticut town as long as it's under a certain size. Same with the sewing studio he created for my step mother. Technically correct is the cheapest kind of correct.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- 0xffff2 7y agoI find the author's dismissiveness towards kitchen space interesting. Granted I cook a lot, but are there really so many people that cook so little that they would have no problem not having a stove at all?
- nkrisc 7y agoIn many places, especially places with a climate like Hawaii, you just cook outdoors. A grill or a small gas stove is probably sufficient, supplemented with rice and whatever else you can cook on a hot plate.
- spraak 7y agoI live in Hawai'i and confirm that many people cook on simple gas stoves and grill.
- ZeroFries 7y agoI'm currently staying in an AirBnB with two induction hot-plates and a microwave and can cook 90% of the meals I do in a regular kitchen.
- asark 7y agoI cook a fair bit and all I really need to get by is two gas burners and maybe a toaster oven. In a pinch one burner'd go a long way, with a couple extra gadgets to help (rice cooker, say). I'd lose out on a lot of baking, which'd suck, but I'm not into much oven stuff anyway, personally. Four (plus) burners and a full-size oven's kinda overkill, I'd seriously consider dropping to separate two-burner and half-height oven built ins to save space for more storage, counterspace, and other appliances if that weren't a lot more expensive than just buying a full-size normal stove.
- gwbas1c 7y agoYou could get a fancy convection microwave. (Basically, a microwave that can also be a small oven.) They take about 20 minutes to heat up on 120v, but they're big enough to bake a cake or a sheet of cookies.
- deckar01 7y agoThis kind of zoning is pretty much unenforceable. There is no good way to tell the difference between guests and customers. Some people have noisy guests that bother their neighbors. Some people make loud noises cutting wood and doing personal projects with heavy machinery in their garage. Money exchanging hands is not the problem.
- Spooky23 7y agoLol. No way. Depending on the town, you'll either piss someone off, or a busybody will rat you out to the codes compliance people. Once that happens, they'll investigate and you're done. When they figure out that you have guests, it's closed and the complainer is directed to do a noise complaint. If they figure out it's a business, you get cited.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago>No way. Depending on the town, you'll either piss someone off, or a busybody will rat you out to the codes compliance people. Once that happens, they'll investigate and you're done. For most of HN that is true because most of HN lives in wealthy cities or suburbs that have enough tax income that they can have a big enough government to the point where spending man hours chasing down that kind of stuff is important. Poor cities don't have the resources to go investigate busybody crap.
- learc83 7y agoI've lived in lower income areas were code enforcement of things like that was common. Regardless I think the gp makes valid point against the ggp. It's definitely not "unenforceable".
- bluGill 7y agoAll cities in the US are wealthy. Same applies to Canada, Germany, Spain... Sure there are poorer people, but on the global scale the poor in Spain are still rich. (this isn't to imply the poor have it easy)
- closetohome 7y agoThis must be really specific to NH, because I don't find any of the laws or problems he talks about familiar.
- SECProto 7y agoI have experience with half a dozen cities around Canada, and they all have similar zoning issues to those described.
- amanaplanacanal 7y agoDo you not have zoning in your city? Or are you just not familiar with what is allowed in various zones?
- strommen 7y agoAbolish single family zoning. It's terrible for the planet, terrible for economic and racial equity, and terrible for our mental health.
- polemic 7y agoAdd more zoning restrictions then?
- strommen 7y agoNo. Less restrictions. Currently every area of a city is "zoned" for what is allowed to get built there. "Single family home" (SFH) zoning is the most common, and the strictest: it requires every building to be a house meant for one family. No multi-family housing (even duplexes) and no commercial use (even neighborhood stores or home businesses). This NYTimes articles discusses some of the issues and how Minneapolis is changing its policies. This should be done everywhere: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/13/us/minneapolis-single-family-zoning.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/13/us/minneapolis-single-fam...
- Waterluvian 7y agoA middle ground I really like are these mixed residential suburbs I'm seeing more in Ontario. On one street you'll find 3 car garage houses all the way down to 6-unit townhouses. All circling the same park with an apartment building on the far corner.
- tdb7893 7y agoI love the Twin Cities, it's my favorite place I've ever lived. I'm not surprised something like this would happen there.
- learc83 7y agoI interpreted that as remove zoning that only allows single family homes
- ars 7y ago
- frenchie4111 7y agoThis is an interesting post. I don't think the title does it justice, I wouldn't have opened it if I wasn't sitting on the toilet and the all the other links were purple at the time.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- dang 7y agoYou're right about the title, but when a substantive post like this one has a whimsical title, we prefer to leave it intact. By whimsical I mean indirect and playful and not using any obvious internet tricks. Leaving it is respectful to the author, and I think it's good for the HN front page not to reveal itself completely without a bit of effort.
- puijyyuittr 7y agoYeah, especially because eating jello with chopsticks isn’t even that difficult. It’s just like eating tofu with chopsticks.
- sxates 7y agoI'm currently in construction on the lower level of my house in Oakland, which will be split in half and include an ADU (accessory dwelling unit) that we'll be able to rent out. There are two ways of doing this in Oakland, and presumably most places - the Legal proper way, and the not-legal way. Most seem to be the latter. But we wanted to do things right. Oakland has a housing shortage and we have more square feet than we need, and we were renovating the house anyway. And according to the city, they're trying to encourage ADU's to help with that housing shortage, so we went that way. But that means we're subject to a whole new set of zoning and construction regulations. Originally I wanted to keep a (locking) interior door between the main house and the ADU so we had the flexibility of having it as a guest room or literal mother-in-law suite if we weren't renting it. Zoning shot that down - ADU is required to be completely separate space. Oh and that 'separate space' is quite literal. Separate HVAC, separate electrical, separate sewer plumbing to the lateral with separate cleanout, and 1-hour fire rated separation on shared walls and ceilings. Some of that makes sense and I'd want to do anyway, but it means a simple 400sq. ft. 1 bedroom ADU in an existing building is about a $100k buildout. The previous owner rented the downstairs space as it was - not legal, no real separation from the main house, shared everything. That was pretty much free for her. I wonder if there's a middle ground somewhere. A 'legal' way to dense up our housing but without the great expense of rebuilding it from the inside out first. This seems like something that we'll be seeing a lot more of in the future, but I can't imagine most people will want to spend what I'm spending to do it 'legally'.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- rayiner 7y agoI don’t understand how you Californians put up with so much government. It’s not even good government. It’s not like you can point to great public services and whatnot to make up for it.
- spraak 7y agoIt seems like the "In Soviet Russia" jokes could now be applied to California (in the sense of regulations, I'm not claiming that California abuses humm rights as much as Soviet Russia did)
- HocusLocus 7y agoTLDR lips plate suck
- euske 7y agoI'm not quite following the article. Why can't people build a duplex like that today? Which part of it is illegal? I think it has something to do with a zoning law, but I'm not very familiar with the concept. (I live in Tokyo.)
- robertnealan 7y agoZoning restrictions are far more restrictive in the United States than in a city like Tokyo, where the government has largely only enacted laws preventing specific cases that would be considered very harmful (opening a heavy industrial businesses in a residential neighborhood for instance). In most of the US most land in smaller cities are zoned for single family housing only. This often means you can only build a house for one family (no duplexes) with arbitrary restrictions on a variety of other things (minimum lot sizes, maximum house sizes relative to lot size, required setbacks from property lines to the house, etc). In the event you are able to build a du/triplex it's rare you'd be able to convert any part of it for business use unless the land was already zoned for multi-use, where they allow mixing of residential and commercial uses.
- peterwwillis 7y agoThe zoning laws are just ridiculous. It shouldn't be illegal to live in a tiny house, or to have mixed-use dwellings, or build more dense, efficient spaces that cost less. There's a good reason why these laws came into practice, but there's also good reason to make exceptions. But it's also impossible to change them without a couple million dollars and an army of lawyers.
- ww520 7y agoFor my old house, the previous owner had built out the basement unit beautifully, with a full bath, large full bedroom, and large living room, and 9' feet ceiling that made it look like a normal living space. When I bought the place, I was thrived. It's like a separate unit. But I checked the city's plan, the build-out was not in the plan, so it was built illegally. Years later when I sold it, I decided to go through the process to bring it up to code. It was a painful and onerous process. Dealing with the city planning department and to be compliant with the regular building code plus the city's own petty codes made me wish I didn't start the process. At various stages of the process, I was at the point of fuck-it and just gave up. Finally got it done after 9 months and extra money. I can certainly understand why people just do it without following the regulation.