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One of the worst things you can do, as a parent, is tell your kid they are smart. I have two kids and one of them is obviously “gifted”. The other is still pret

One of the worst things you can do, as a parent, is tell your kid they are smart. I have two kids and one of them is obviously “gifted”. The other is still pretty far ahead. Smart is a bad word in my house. Gifted is not something that is ever uttered. We (as parents) work very hard to instill a sense of hard work, effort, and purpose into our kids lives. They do BJJ, a martial art that is very hard, even if you are very smart. The main purpose is to teach them there are things they aren’t good at and have to work at, and even small improvements in BJJ can feel like huge wins. My motivation and reason is very similar to the authors. Everyone always told me how smart I was, and wondered why I didn’t succeed academically. It’s because it was too easy and I was already “smart” so why bother? I started building software professionally at 19 and moved away from home. My first few years away from home were hard as I had to learn life skills like “focus” heh. Anyhow, that is my story time about kids and being smart. FWIW, my 7 year old came home one day recently and said “I think I am smart. I can read books the fourth graders do....” heh. I just told her “good, but it doesn’t matter. Just enjoy the books” she really thought I would be proud she is smart, and of course we are, but “smart” can set you up for a hard time finding fulfillment later on in life.

sanxiyn 7y ago
"I think I am smart." That's really cute! I mean, it's pretty much impossible to hide smartness. If you are smart, you will know. I am not attractive, but I also heard that if you are very attractive, it's pretty much impossible not to realize that.
- Bakary 7y ago
  >If you are smart, you will know. I am not attractive, but I also heard that if you are very attractive, it's pretty much impossible not to realize that. From my anecdotal experiences meeting people who were in that situation, it can definitely happen if your self-esteem is crushed early on in life.
- ordu 7y ago
  > If you are smart, you will know. The point is not to hide smartness, the point is not to allow your child to came to an idea that to fail to be smart means that parents would be disappointed and would love him less. If you praise your child on being smart, that he/she will come to such a stupid idea. It doesn't mean they would be able to express this idea in words, it means that their mind would operate in such a way, that presumes that the idea is true. Do you know how people feel when they fail to be "a good boy/girl"? To be good in a sense you had internalized before you turned 10. A person could feel the same if to be good means to be smart for him/her.
  - Retra 7y ago
    That depends on the child. It's not the case that every child would rather know they are loved than that they are intelligent. Love doesn't create any fewer unwanted obligations than intelligence does.
    - ordu 7y ago
      Parental love and fear to disappoint parents in a force that drives child to internalize values and to prioritize them. What that values are depends on parents, it could be compassion, love, greed, competitiveness, hard work, intelligence, beauty, knowledge, it could be anything. It is good because it is the only known way to a person to form. It is a way for parents to pass their values to a child. Child seeks love from his/her parents and avoids rejection, using any tools he/she have. Then tools become values and motives and get an ability to drive behavior by themselves, even without any parent nearby. But the trouble is, if between those values there are personal traits that cannot be possible altered by a child, then he/she is trapped. If parent constantly shown to a girl that he loves her when she is pretty and rejects her when he is not so pretty, and then she compared herself with models and found that she is not so pretty as them, than she would be unable to meet standards of her parent without a plastic surgery. If parent shown signs of rejection to his child (just a visible disappointment might be enough) when he failed to be smart enough, than child face a risk to grow not smart enough to meet standards of his parent, and he would have no way to meet them: he couldn't be smarter than he is. Love of parents should be unconditional. It solves the most of problems of such a kind. But if you wish to praise your child, praise for something that is really an achievement, for something that is under control of a child, not for something that he got from a birth and couldn't control. Not for intelligence, but for a hard work. Not for beauty, but for... I don't know... for love, compassion or care. From a behaviorist point of view, when you praise your child for something that not under his control, you are replicating a famous Skinner's experiment with a random reinforcement[1]. If you are punishing child (for example, showing signs of disappointment) for his failure to be smart (i.e. for the reasons that were not under his control), then you'd replicate learned helplessness[2]. In reality it is more complicated, because child would face as rewards so punishments, but in a short it would make no good for a child. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23377456_Superstition_in_the_pigeon https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23377456_Superstiti... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
commandlinefan 7y ago
> One of the worst things you can do is tell your kid they are smart. Well, don’t make them feel stupid, either - what I tell my son is that he’s smart, but I remind him that even if he’s smarter than 99% of all the people in the world, there are still 70 million people that are smarter than he is.
vagab0nd 7y ago
Speaking from my own experience, I think it's very important to have a balanced view of the fact that you are smart. i.e. you shouldn't be ignorant of it. If you "play" competitively in any of the fields, being ignorant of your own strength is a big disadvantage in my opinion.
- humanrebar 7y ago
  Yes. Being smart is like being tall. You might as well accept it and be honest about it. And both are good for your life in direct and indirect ways. But neither guarantee much of anything. So some humility about intelligence is important.
- bitexploder 7y ago
  How would you see using the knowledge that you are smart to your advantage in a given field? You still have to do the work? (my line of thinking is something like: You produce what you produce in your field. To me the effort you put in matters the most. Smart is a meta quality to your work)
  - vagab0nd 7y ago
    Yes it is a meta quality, and that's why it's not irrelevant. For instance, when told something is "hard", you can calibrate yourself on what that means. You also get the correct sense of what's possible and what's not, in what amount of time. This helps a ton with planning and decision making.
    - bitexploder 7y ago
      Thanks for clarifying. I am not sure how important it is to know you are “smart” vs just doing what comes natural in a given situation. It’s just how you will work problems. But I do think there is something there, about being Meta-analytical. I think good leaders have this. The ability to be two feet above a battlefield. I am not convinced it’s completely even a “smart” thing so much as a distinct problem solving methodology that works well (which might just make you smart based on the observables). I am rambling, anyhow. This was a cool thread in general.
CyanBird 7y ago
I wonder how would it be possible to teach young children to not value "being smart" and make that stick as they grown into rebel teenagers, deception is certainly not the way to go, as they will obviously notice it over time. Telling them "it doesn't matter" I don't think that's sticky enough, probably just being upfront and saying to them the reasons behind it, why it doesn't matter
- bitexploder 7y ago
  They figure it out for themselves. No one has to tell you. It is a very difficult balancing act. I could write a long essay length document on my approach to this. My son is older, age 12, and he knows he is smart now, but, I think about it in concrete terms of how does this matter? He just /IS/ smart. He won't ever be dumb. But if I can't teach him how to work hard and apply his natural gifts and what he has learned what good is being smart? I think kids are really good at figuring it out and using it (intelligence) without a lot of guidance. Of course, we do things and I try to keep them challenged at home, but I also try to show them what hard work is and how to enjoy simple things. In the real world, people care more about what you can do than how smart you are. Of course we love it when smart people do great things, but... it just doesn't matter in practice. I think it is all about focusing on values and emphasizing things (like hard work) over smart.
- jdefr89 7y ago
  I think "being smart" like anything else, has diminishing return. It should be we teach children that you can be very smart, but without work ethic/motivation/passion to go alone, you may not go half as far as you would imagine.
abledon 7y ago
I was browsing reddit and noticed lots of people complaining about persisting injuries from practicing BJJ. Do they handle youth BJJ differently to protect from these types of risks?
- bitexploder 7y ago
  For small kids they are just so ridiculously resilient and light. Injury rates before teenage years is very low in my experience. They also only go 2-3 times / week maximum and the coaches keep the training intensity moderated in the younger kid's classes. This matters a lot. As an adult, I won't lie, BJJ hurts some times. Common injuries are finger/hand/foot/toe injuries. You will definitely get bumps and bruises, some times significant ones, but that is no factor usually. If you aren't in good shape you are at more risk. It kept me away from the practice for a long time, but... you modulate your own BJJ experience as an adult. Go less frequently and choose the right school, it is a journey like anything else. I personally have subluxated my ribs once (really only stopped me from doing BJJ, I could still run/lift), but it really hurt, and my fingers and toes definitely feel it some days, but nothing that required a doctor yet. The up side is... it is one of the most amazing things I have ever done. It keeps my ego in check. It is as intensely technical as you want it to be. It is like the merging of an ultimate nerd and fitness hobby into one martial art / sport. It is a legit martial art. If you start training seriously, I think it requires a serious training focused on improving your strength and muscle mass for injury resistance as well.

sanxiyn 7y ago

"I think I am smart." That's really cute! I mean, it's pretty much impossible to hide smartness. If you are smart, you will know. I am not attractive, but I also heard that if you are very attractive, it's pretty much impossible not to realize that.

Bakary 7y ago
>If you are smart, you will know. I am not attractive, but I also heard that if you are very attractive, it's pretty much impossible not to realize that. From my anecdotal experiences meeting people who were in that situation, it can definitely happen if your self-esteem is crushed early on in life.
ordu 7y ago
> If you are smart, you will know. The point is not to hide smartness, the point is not to allow your child to came to an idea that to fail to be smart means that parents would be disappointed and would love him less. If you praise your child on being smart, that he/she will come to such a stupid idea. It doesn't mean they would be able to express this idea in words, it means that their mind would operate in such a way, that presumes that the idea is true. Do you know how people feel when they fail to be "a good boy/girl"? To be good in a sense you had internalized before you turned 10. A person could feel the same if to be good means to be smart for him/her.
- Retra 7y ago
  That depends on the child. It's not the case that every child would rather know they are loved than that they are intelligent. Love doesn't create any fewer unwanted obligations than intelligence does.
  - ordu 7y ago
    Parental love and fear to disappoint parents in a force that drives child to internalize values and to prioritize them. What that values are depends on parents, it could be compassion, love, greed, competitiveness, hard work, intelligence, beauty, knowledge, it could be anything. It is good because it is the only known way to a person to form. It is a way for parents to pass their values to a child. Child seeks love from his/her parents and avoids rejection, using any tools he/she have. Then tools become values and motives and get an ability to drive behavior by themselves, even without any parent nearby. But the trouble is, if between those values there are personal traits that cannot be possible altered by a child, then he/she is trapped. If parent constantly shown to a girl that he loves her when she is pretty and rejects her when he is not so pretty, and then she compared herself with models and found that she is not so pretty as them, than she would be unable to meet standards of her parent without a plastic surgery. If parent shown signs of rejection to his child (just a visible disappointment might be enough) when he failed to be smart enough, than child face a risk to grow not smart enough to meet standards of his parent, and he would have no way to meet them: he couldn't be smarter than he is. Love of parents should be unconditional. It solves the most of problems of such a kind. But if you wish to praise your child, praise for something that is really an achievement, for something that is under control of a child, not for something that he got from a birth and couldn't control. Not for intelligence, but for a hard work. Not for beauty, but for... I don't know... for love, compassion or care. From a behaviorist point of view, when you praise your child for something that not under his control, you are replicating a famous Skinner's experiment with a random reinforcement[1]. If you are punishing child (for example, showing signs of disappointment) for his failure to be smart (i.e. for the reasons that were not under his control), then you'd replicate learned helplessness[2]. In reality it is more complicated, because child would face as rewards so punishments, but in a short it would make no good for a child. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23377456_Superstition_in_the_pigeon https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23377456_Superstiti... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

commandlinefan 7y ago

> One of the worst things you can do is tell your kid they are smart. Well, don’t make them feel stupid, either - what I tell my son is that he’s smart, but I remind him that even if he’s smarter than 99% of all the people in the world, there are still 70 million people that are smarter than he is.

vagab0nd 7y ago

Speaking from my own experience, I think it's very important to have a balanced view of the fact that you are smart. i.e. you shouldn't be ignorant of it. If you "play" competitively in any of the fields, being ignorant of your own strength is a big disadvantage in my opinion.

humanrebar 7y ago
Yes. Being smart is like being tall. You might as well accept it and be honest about it. And both are good for your life in direct and indirect ways. But neither guarantee much of anything. So some humility about intelligence is important.
bitexploder 7y ago
How would you see using the knowledge that you are smart to your advantage in a given field? You still have to do the work? (my line of thinking is something like: You produce what you produce in your field. To me the effort you put in matters the most. Smart is a meta quality to your work)
- vagab0nd 7y ago
  Yes it is a meta quality, and that's why it's not irrelevant. For instance, when told something is "hard", you can calibrate yourself on what that means. You also get the correct sense of what's possible and what's not, in what amount of time. This helps a ton with planning and decision making.
  - bitexploder 7y ago
    Thanks for clarifying. I am not sure how important it is to know you are “smart” vs just doing what comes natural in a given situation. It’s just how you will work problems. But I do think there is something there, about being Meta-analytical. I think good leaders have this. The ability to be two feet above a battlefield. I am not convinced it’s completely even a “smart” thing so much as a distinct problem solving methodology that works well (which might just make you smart based on the observables). I am rambling, anyhow. This was a cool thread in general.

CyanBird 7y ago

I wonder how would it be possible to teach young children to not value "being smart" and make that stick as they grown into rebel teenagers, deception is certainly not the way to go, as they will obviously notice it over time. Telling them "it doesn't matter" I don't think that's sticky enough, probably just being upfront and saying to them the reasons behind it, why it doesn't matter

bitexploder 7y ago
They figure it out for themselves. No one has to tell you. It is a very difficult balancing act. I could write a long essay length document on my approach to this. My son is older, age 12, and he knows he is smart now, but, I think about it in concrete terms of how does this matter? He just /IS/ smart. He won't ever be dumb. But if I can't teach him how to work hard and apply his natural gifts and what he has learned what good is being smart? I think kids are really good at figuring it out and using it (intelligence) without a lot of guidance. Of course, we do things and I try to keep them challenged at home, but I also try to show them what hard work is and how to enjoy simple things. In the real world, people care more about what you can do than how smart you are. Of course we love it when smart people do great things, but... it just doesn't matter in practice. I think it is all about focusing on values and emphasizing things (like hard work) over smart.
jdefr89 7y ago
I think "being smart" like anything else, has diminishing return. It should be we teach children that you can be very smart, but without work ethic/motivation/passion to go alone, you may not go half as far as you would imagine.

abledon 7y ago

I was browsing reddit and noticed lots of people complaining about persisting injuries from practicing BJJ. Do they handle youth BJJ differently to protect from these types of risks?

bitexploder 7y ago
For small kids they are just so ridiculously resilient and light. Injury rates before teenage years is very low in my experience. They also only go 2-3 times / week maximum and the coaches keep the training intensity moderated in the younger kid's classes. This matters a lot. As an adult, I won't lie, BJJ hurts some times. Common injuries are finger/hand/foot/toe injuries. You will definitely get bumps and bruises, some times significant ones, but that is no factor usually. If you aren't in good shape you are at more risk. It kept me away from the practice for a long time, but... you modulate your own BJJ experience as an adult. Go less frequently and choose the right school, it is a journey like anything else. I personally have subluxated my ribs once (really only stopped me from doing BJJ, I could still run/lift), but it really hurt, and my fingers and toes definitely feel it some days, but nothing that required a doctor yet. The up side is... it is one of the most amazing things I have ever done. It keeps my ego in check. It is as intensely technical as you want it to be. It is like the merging of an ultimate nerd and fitness hobby into one martial art / sport. It is a legit martial art. If you start training seriously, I think it requires a serious training focused on improving your strength and muscle mass for injury resistance as well.