3 ms·

I’m curious why I never see these kinds of articles going into how unions are bleeding the city dry. Union laborers wages are like 5 times more than other equiv

I’m curious why I never see these kinds of articles going into how unions are bleeding the city dry. Union laborers wages are like 5 times more than other equivalent workers and they do 5 times less work because they know it’s basically impossible to fire them. A good amount of the transit union workers I know will be quite proud to tell you how they get paid a full day for doing 2 hours of work and then going home while their foreman will clock them out for a full 8 hours.

bradleyjg 7y ago
The politics around unions in NYC are pretty fascinating. Many of the trades and at least some of the public sector workers are making enough money to be upper middle class (or higher) by any reasonable definition. Much more so certainly than many professions requiring college or even graduate degrees--for example publishing is still fairly big in NYC but pays terribly. However the rhetoric coming out of these unions still hits the themes of poor, underdog working class pretty hard. Meanwhile the actual working class is hit the hardest by inflated costs of virtually everything. You end up with tragicomic situations like the infamous inflated rat protests being manned by poorly paid temp workers because the actual union members can't be bothered.
seibelj 7y ago
An acquaintance's dad was a fire fighter in NYC, and decided he wanted an extended vacation. So after a fire he walked up to an ambulance, and said "Find something wrong with me!" and hopped in. The end result was 3 years of disability with full pay - a nice long vacation like he wanted! Like yourself, when he told me this story he was quite proud, fully believing he deserved the time off and happy he put one over on society.
throw0101a 7y ago
Unlike the Europeans, who don't have to deal with unions: > In Europe, too, subways cost less. Madrid's recently-opened Metrosur line is 41 km long, with 28 stations, yet was completed in four years at around $58m per km. Recent expansions in Paris and Berlin cost about $250 million per km. * https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2011/11/1-billion-doesnt-buy-much-transit-infrastructure-anymore/456/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2011/11/1-billion-doe... > In Japan and continental Europe, Levy found, tunnels usually cost between $200 million and $450 million per mile; the most expensive, the North–South Line in Amsterdam, still cost only $660 million per mile, more than twice its original budget. Spain, Italy and South Korea were especially economical, building tunnels for less than $250 million per mile. (Since 2011, US inflation has increased these numbers by about 12 percent.) * https://nypost.com/2018/08/25/why-nyc-is-priciest-city-in-the-world-for-infrastructure-projects/ https://nypost.com/2018/08/25/why-nyc-is-priciest-city-in-th... Even LA and Chicago are cheaper AFAICT, they're probably unionized as well. NYC just seems to be a really weird place where multiple factors are stacking up on each other: * https://ny.curbed.com/2017/12/29/16829746/mta-nyc-subway-construction-costs-investigation https://ny.curbed.com/2017/12/29/16829746/mta-nyc-subway-con... The NYT did a "deep dive" a little while ago: * http://secondavenuesagas.com/2018/01/01/inside-times-deep-dive-factors-behind-mtas-massive-cost-problems/ http://secondavenuesagas.com/2018/01/01/inside-times-deep-di...

bradleyjg 7y ago

The politics around unions in NYC are pretty fascinating. Many of the trades and at least some of the public sector workers are making enough money to be upper middle class (or higher) by any reasonable definition. Much more so certainly than many professions requiring college or even graduate degrees--for example publishing is still fairly big in NYC but pays terribly. However the rhetoric coming out of these unions still hits the themes of poor, underdog working class pretty hard. Meanwhile the actual working class is hit the hardest by inflated costs of virtually everything. You end up with tragicomic situations like the infamous inflated rat protests being manned by poorly paid temp workers because the actual union members can't be bothered.

seibelj 7y ago

An acquaintance's dad was a fire fighter in NYC, and decided he wanted an extended vacation. So after a fire he walked up to an ambulance, and said "Find something wrong with me!" and hopped in. The end result was 3 years of disability with full pay - a nice long vacation like he wanted! Like yourself, when he told me this story he was quite proud, fully believing he deserved the time off and happy he put one over on society.

throw0101a 7y ago

Unlike the Europeans, who don't have to deal with unions: > In Europe, too, subways cost less. Madrid's recently-opened Metrosur line is 41 km long, with 28 stations, yet was completed in four years at around $58m per km. Recent expansions in Paris and Berlin cost about $250 million per km. * https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2011/11/1-billion-doesnt-buy-much-transit-infrastructure-anymore/456/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2011/11/1-billion-doe... > In Japan and continental Europe, Levy found, tunnels usually cost between $200 million and $450 million per mile; the most expensive, the North–South Line in Amsterdam, still cost only $660 million per mile, more than twice its original budget. Spain, Italy and South Korea were especially economical, building tunnels for less than $250 million per mile. (Since 2011, US inflation has increased these numbers by about 12 percent.) * https://nypost.com/2018/08/25/why-nyc-is-priciest-city-in-the-world-for-infrastructure-projects/ https://nypost.com/2018/08/25/why-nyc-is-priciest-city-in-th... Even LA and Chicago are cheaper AFAICT, they're probably unionized as well. NYC just seems to be a really weird place where multiple factors are stacking up on each other: * https://ny.curbed.com/2017/12/29/16829746/mta-nyc-subway-construction-costs-investigation https://ny.curbed.com/2017/12/29/16829746/mta-nyc-subway-con... The NYT did a "deep dive" a little while ago: * http://secondavenuesagas.com/2018/01/01/inside-times-deep-dive-factors-behind-mtas-massive-cost-problems/ http://secondavenuesagas.com/2018/01/01/inside-times-deep-di...