6 ms·

Ethically: yeah.

dkersten 7y ago
Why? Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just trying to understand your point of view. The way I see it is if he's made up his mind, then there are really three possible outcomes by suggesting drugs: 1. best case, he feels better, yay! 2. worst case, it makes him worse, he kills himself, but was going to do so anyway. :( 3. he has an interesting experience before the end. I don't see any ethical issues with suggesting something that if it goes wrong, leads to the same outcome as not doing anything. To me, it seems like he has everything to gain and nothing to lose. I'd like to hear your opposing view, though, so I can understand where the flaw in my reasoning is, if there is one.
- AllegedAlec 7y ago
  Because you do not know how the trip will impact him. It could be that he self-harms in a way which only makes things permanently worse. It could be that he hurts others during the trip. There are so many factors which could go badly wrong that it is (in my opinion) unethical to suggest this is a good approach.
  - willio58 7y ago
    If only mentally healthy people took psychedelic drugs, almost nobody would take psychedelic drugs. There is no true answer to who should take them. Even those who seem healthiest among us now could break under the mental strain of these drugs. And those who seem most mentally unhealthy could stand to benefit the most. And to assume that suicidal thoughts equates to someone being dangerous is just as “retarded” as calling the idea of this person taking psychedelic drugs “retarded”.
    - _ki7l 7y ago
      Thank you, I was going to upvote you and leave it at that. But I can't help but say that listening to hand-wringing busy bodies like the individual above was why I was in a prescription, broken minded hell for 7 years straight before the moment of pure eureka that the entheogenic experience can bring. They certainly do not help folks like the original poster already prone to anxiety and in need of warm comfort rather than cold cynicism. I will never understand why people fear that which they do not understand. The more I learn the nature of fear - lies that we tell ourselves and each other - the more I have a distaste for them.
  - dkersten 7y ago
    Ok, I understand. Thanks! What if they took some precautions, eg someone was with them to make sure that they don't do any harm (to themselves or others)? People generally recommend that one take psychedelics with a sitter, after all. Or is the concern also about their mental state in the coming days/weeks/however long after the trip?
    - lagg 7y ago
      Don't backtrack yourself. The day I took shrooms was the day I understood my place in the grand organism and the true power unto a god that each person has in their potential and the only inhibitor is how willing they are to confront that level of their own power. I only continue to understand myself and those around me, and how to forge my life to its fullest with every instance I take entheogens. I have very little respect for hand-wringing types like those above. All it does is plant undue anxiety in a mind that could easily be calm waters. I could go so far as to say I loathe them. But I'm trying hard to see this person's point. Also, I can't believe I'm becoming active after years again to infodump this. But I can only hope the original parent sees it and knows they're not alone. Edit to be abundantly clear: Entheogens did nothing short of saving my life. And it has since only been an upward trend. To the extent that I hilariously enough stopped coffee after a powerful experience forced me to observe just what such things can do to anxiety and blood pressure and the like. On an intimate level akin to detached observation from outside a lab. Except one's own mind.
      - dkersten 7y ago
        Oh, I’m not backtracking. I personally don’t have any issues with it, I was just trying to understand where AlegedAlec draws the line. I’ve personally been what some people might call “careless” with drugs in the past, in that I maybe wasn’t the most mentally stable and I’ve taken drugs when others would have warned me not to (eg while depressed) and I personally feel like they helped me through it. Ketamine especially has made a huge difference, even in very small doses, although in large doses it gave me this overwhelming and lasting sense of connectedness with the world. Since I spent a lot of my life struggling with loneliness (and not for lack of friends or people around me), that really really helped me. I’m glad to hear that you are doing better too!
  - deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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Ethically: yeah.

Why? Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just trying to understand your point of view. The way I see it is if he's made up his mind, then there are really three possible outcomes by suggesting drugs: 1. best case, he feels better, yay! 2. worst case, it makes him worse, he kills himself, but was going to do so anyway. :( 3. he has an interesting experience before the end. I don't see any ethical issues with suggesting something that if it goes wrong, leads to the same outcome as not doing anything. To me, it seems like he has everything to gain and nothing to lose. I'd like to hear your opposing view, though, so I can understand where the flaw in my reasoning is, if there is one.

AllegedAlec 7y ago
Because you do not know how the trip will impact him. It could be that he self-harms in a way which only makes things permanently worse. It could be that he hurts others during the trip. There are so many factors which could go badly wrong that it is (in my opinion) unethical to suggest this is a good approach.
- willio58 7y ago
  If only mentally healthy people took psychedelic drugs, almost nobody would take psychedelic drugs. There is no true answer to who should take them. Even those who seem healthiest among us now could break under the mental strain of these drugs. And those who seem most mentally unhealthy could stand to benefit the most. And to assume that suicidal thoughts equates to someone being dangerous is just as “retarded” as calling the idea of this person taking psychedelic drugs “retarded”.
  - _ki7l 7y ago
    Thank you, I was going to upvote you and leave it at that. But I can't help but say that listening to hand-wringing busy bodies like the individual above was why I was in a prescription, broken minded hell for 7 years straight before the moment of pure eureka that the entheogenic experience can bring. They certainly do not help folks like the original poster already prone to anxiety and in need of warm comfort rather than cold cynicism. I will never understand why people fear that which they do not understand. The more I learn the nature of fear - lies that we tell ourselves and each other - the more I have a distaste for them.
- dkersten 7y ago
  Ok, I understand. Thanks! What if they took some precautions, eg someone was with them to make sure that they don't do any harm (to themselves or others)? People generally recommend that one take psychedelics with a sitter, after all. Or is the concern also about their mental state in the coming days/weeks/however long after the trip?
  - lagg 7y ago
    Don't backtrack yourself. The day I took shrooms was the day I understood my place in the grand organism and the true power unto a god that each person has in their potential and the only inhibitor is how willing they are to confront that level of their own power. I only continue to understand myself and those around me, and how to forge my life to its fullest with every instance I take entheogens. I have very little respect for hand-wringing types like those above. All it does is plant undue anxiety in a mind that could easily be calm waters. I could go so far as to say I loathe them. But I'm trying hard to see this person's point. Also, I can't believe I'm becoming active after years again to infodump this. But I can only hope the original parent sees it and knows they're not alone. Edit to be abundantly clear: Entheogens did nothing short of saving my life. And it has since only been an upward trend. To the extent that I hilariously enough stopped coffee after a powerful experience forced me to observe just what such things can do to anxiety and blood pressure and the like. On an intimate level akin to detached observation from outside a lab. Except one's own mind.
    - dkersten 7y ago
      Oh, I’m not backtracking. I personally don’t have any issues with it, I was just trying to understand where AlegedAlec draws the line. I’ve personally been what some people might call “careless” with drugs in the past, in that I maybe wasn’t the most mentally stable and I’ve taken drugs when others would have warned me not to (eg while depressed) and I personally feel like they helped me through it. Ketamine especially has made a huge difference, even in very small doses, although in large doses it gave me this overwhelming and lasting sense of connectedness with the world. Since I spent a lot of my life struggling with loneliness (and not for lack of friends or people around me), that really really helped me. I’m glad to hear that you are doing better too!
- deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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