3 ms·

> is it just me or is this a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation? It's just you. The example of the journalist is a very good example of exactly why this is

> is it just me or is this a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation? It's just you. The example of the journalist is a very good example of exactly why this is such an extreme issue, but it really starts with the small things. What if you want to call someone, and not tell them your name? well, f#$£ you then, the app already told them. Don't want everyone knowing where you work? well f$%& you again, maybe somebody added that with your name in the app (just as the example of the journalist). So now you call, say, your beloved grandma and your number shows up as "Henry the drug dealer". Maybe you don't even deal drugs, but someone a) thought it'd be funny or b) wants to hurt your reputation. Or even worse, imagine you call a company regarding an application for a job. It's already a big enough problem that someone else posting a picture of you doing something stupid while drunk can ruin your chances of getting a job; now we're talking about attaching random, possibly personal, possibly untrue information to your phone number for everyone to see without even informing you. This isn't a molehill. It's borderline criminal.

xixixao 7y ago
Let's go back to the world where there is no internet. Imagine someone spreads a rumor about you. Or a praise. People might have heard this, before they even met you. It can be illegal, harmful, or beneficial, but it's under the control of the people you interact with. If you meet someone for the first time, and the person heard from someone that you're dealing drugs, and you tell her you don't, and ask them where they heard that, they might trust you over the rumor, and you'll try to eradicate the rumor. There are differences, mainly in that the call receiver has greater power to reject the call based on the information they have. I think the real story is in the interaction and how the app behaves, for the receiver. Were they aware that they were putting Chloe into the database? The article doesn't say. Without this, it's hard to judge whether the same thing couldn't have happened in a world without internet (imagine a small village). It doesn't seem to be entirely black and white.
- Alterlife 7y ago
  Truecaller is one of those "it just works" apps. It is completely transparent to the user. You can use it as a dialer to make and receive calls. A lot of people don't understand that it's silently uploading their contact lists, personal information and call behavior off to the internet. The customer service agent in the article from truecaller is correct about the usefulness of the app. A friend of mine was able to track down the owner of a fraudulent dishwasher service center in Bangalore because of truecaller. The photo and name of the owner in the app attached to the business mobile number.
  - tqi 7y ago
    > A lot of people don't understand that it's silently uploading their contact lists, personal information and call behavior off to the internet. At least in the case of the tags, is that true? How do they think it works then when they get a call from a new number and it has the person's name / other information?
- pjc50 7y ago
  You cannot run a global civilization on the norms of a small village.
  - lapnitnelav 7y ago
    It doesn't scale.
- zambal 7y ago
  Sure, the mechanism is the same, but the scale and effectiveness are not. In your scenario, if someone wants to spread rumors about you in bad faith, they have to spend a lot of time and resources to make sure everybody you might interact with knows about the rumors. A service like TrueCaller makes this much easier, which I personally think is very problematic. And as others have noted, another issue is that people even might not do this in bad faith. Just as a little prank, without realizing the potential consequences.
- DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
  uh... I'm pretty sure if I went around telling everyone my friends telephone number, and what they work as, I'd get in trouble with the police rather quickly.
314 7y ago
Each of your examples exhibit a broken model of what a phone-number is. You are arguing that people should be able to use a single unique id (their telephone number) anonymously. This is not how the world works and it is terrible opsec.

xixixao 7y ago

Let's go back to the world where there is no internet. Imagine someone spreads a rumor about you. Or a praise. People might have heard this, before they even met you. It can be illegal, harmful, or beneficial, but it's under the control of the people you interact with. If you meet someone for the first time, and the person heard from someone that you're dealing drugs, and you tell her you don't, and ask them where they heard that, they might trust you over the rumor, and you'll try to eradicate the rumor. There are differences, mainly in that the call receiver has greater power to reject the call based on the information they have. I think the real story is in the interaction and how the app behaves, for the receiver. Were they aware that they were putting Chloe into the database? The article doesn't say. Without this, it's hard to judge whether the same thing couldn't have happened in a world without internet (imagine a small village). It doesn't seem to be entirely black and white.

Alterlife 7y ago
Truecaller is one of those "it just works" apps. It is completely transparent to the user. You can use it as a dialer to make and receive calls. A lot of people don't understand that it's silently uploading their contact lists, personal information and call behavior off to the internet. The customer service agent in the article from truecaller is correct about the usefulness of the app. A friend of mine was able to track down the owner of a fraudulent dishwasher service center in Bangalore because of truecaller. The photo and name of the owner in the app attached to the business mobile number.
- tqi 7y ago
  > A lot of people don't understand that it's silently uploading their contact lists, personal information and call behavior off to the internet. At least in the case of the tags, is that true? How do they think it works then when they get a call from a new number and it has the person's name / other information?
pjc50 7y ago
You cannot run a global civilization on the norms of a small village.
- lapnitnelav 7y ago
  It doesn't scale.
zambal 7y ago
Sure, the mechanism is the same, but the scale and effectiveness are not. In your scenario, if someone wants to spread rumors about you in bad faith, they have to spend a lot of time and resources to make sure everybody you might interact with knows about the rumors. A service like TrueCaller makes this much easier, which I personally think is very problematic. And as others have noted, another issue is that people even might not do this in bad faith. Just as a little prank, without realizing the potential consequences.
DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
uh... I'm pretty sure if I went around telling everyone my friends telephone number, and what they work as, I'd get in trouble with the police rather quickly.

314 7y ago

Each of your examples exhibit a broken model of what a phone-number is. You are arguing that people should be able to use a single unique id (their telephone number) anonymously. This is not how the world works and it is terrible opsec.