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> We reply to TrueCaller to suggest that: > - They advertise the unlisting option more clearl > - They send a SMS to any non-user whose number is entered to w

> We reply to TrueCaller to suggest that: > - They advertise the unlisting option more clearl > - They send a SMS to any non-user whose number is entered to warn them someone is attempting to enter their number and ask them for consent. This would also be an opportunity to inform them about the unlisting option. I doubt anything less than that is even really legal in the EU right now. Essentially, if my phone number is entered into that app, my personal data is being digitally processed and maid widely available without my knowledge or consent. Pretty sure that's very much illegal.

Mirioron 7y ago
I'm often critical of GDPR, but stuff like this is why I think it's probably necessary to have.
- DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
  GDPR is 100% necessary and fundamentally a good idea. It has a lot of problems that just show how incompetent politicians can get on a bad day, but that doesn't invalidate the core idea.
  - _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
    Could have been my comment.
  - CaptainZapp 7y ago
    It has a lot of problems that just show how incompetent politicians can get on a bad day Mind elaborating on them? The only potential issue, which I see, is some ambigiouty. However, I don't see how you could craft a legal frame work without some ambiguity, which needs to be resolved by the courts at one point. Unless your business model is dreck, I really don't see any issues with the GDPR as such.
    - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
      Maybe I'm just naively applying my programmers sense of beauty to legal stuff, but the main problem I have is complexity. I'm OK with google having to spend some money on lawyers to work out what they can and cannot get away with, but smaller busynesses seem to be pretty lost right now. This is partly because it's a new thing and we need to wait and see how judges ultimately interpret things, which will give people some more security. A simpler, more elegant solution would have been better in my opinion.
      - CaptainZapp 7y ago
        Maybe I'm just naively applying my programmers sense of beauty to legal stuff I see that happening a lot. Actually, it's more trying to apply tech skills to societal issues, often without really thinking through the consequences or the bigger societal impact. Sidewalk Labs Toronto experiments provides a nice illustration of such issues.[1], [2] & [3] One of the buzzwords that really gets my blood boiling is "Government V2.0". Life and society is usally quite messy and attempting to optimize it very often yields rather undesirable consequences, or just outsources the externalities to other parts of society. A simpler, more elegant solution would have been better in my opinion. Sure, that would be nice. But I think that's extremely hard to do with crafting legal frameworks. If tech has tought me anything in the last 20 years is that you will have people, entities and corporations just abusing the sweet bejeezus out of any loophole, which they can identify and get away with. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2018/08/08/sidewalk-labs/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2018/08/... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sidewalk-labs-privacy-concerns-1.4644449 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sidewalk-labs-privacy... [3] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/cracks-appear-in-sidewalk-labs-plan-afterfanfare/article38103236/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/cracks-appear-i...
        Mirioron 7y ago
        A simpler and more elegant solution wouldn't screw over small businesses and individuals as much. An individual running a forum from their basement has to follow the same rules that Google spends tens of thousands on lawyers fees to figure out. Maybe exemptions or less strict rules for smaller companies should've been added. The EU isn't exactly a bastion of internet technology enterprises, so we probably shouldn't throw the few that try under the bus.
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    The problem I see is that politicians don't seem to have any good days.
    - vanderZwan 7y ago
      You are living in a complex, mostly functioning nation state where the majority of conflicts is resolved in a civil manner. Not in a small tribal society where you might be murdered by someone physically stronger than you simply because he lusts after your partner. That simple fact proves how hyperbolic and naive your statement is.
      - kmlx 7y ago
        wut? are we really comparing 21st century society with a tribal one? by that measure we've solved pretty much everything. when in reality the contrary is true: politicians are mostly career based opportunists and the inertial nature of our society pushes us to peace and prosperity.
        gdy 7y ago
        "by that measure we've solved pretty much everything" Yes. And you need to appreciate this before you start breaking things. Life can go from good to bad, not to better.
      - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
        While that's obviously a very good point, one could also argue that this is mostly due to law enforcement and culture. We live in a society where murdering someone gets you outcast pretty easily, and on top of that thrown in jail. Politicians ultimately only wrote down what is a large cultural consensus. The problems start when politicians decide over smaller things that not everyone can agree on. I mean, damn, they'd be more than incompetent if they didn't get laws regarding murder right. The latest screw-up of european politicians (the same who are responsible for GDPR) is the european copyright reform, which just shows a complete lack of both technical understanding and willingness to listen to experts who do understand the situation.
  - _0ffh 7y ago
    Yes, but the GDPR was definitely done on a "good day", relatively speaking. You don't want to know about the bad days. Stuff like the Copyright Directive seems to be the norm, not an unhappy accident.

Mirioron 7y ago

I'm often critical of GDPR, but stuff like this is why I think it's probably necessary to have.

DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
GDPR is 100% necessary and fundamentally a good idea. It has a lot of problems that just show how incompetent politicians can get on a bad day, but that doesn't invalidate the core idea.
- _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
  Could have been my comment.
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  It has a lot of problems that just show how incompetent politicians can get on a bad day Mind elaborating on them? The only potential issue, which I see, is some ambigiouty. However, I don't see how you could craft a legal frame work without some ambiguity, which needs to be resolved by the courts at one point. Unless your business model is dreck, I really don't see any issues with the GDPR as such.
  - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
    Maybe I'm just naively applying my programmers sense of beauty to legal stuff, but the main problem I have is complexity. I'm OK with google having to spend some money on lawyers to work out what they can and cannot get away with, but smaller busynesses seem to be pretty lost right now. This is partly because it's a new thing and we need to wait and see how judges ultimately interpret things, which will give people some more security. A simpler, more elegant solution would have been better in my opinion.
    - CaptainZapp 7y ago
      Maybe I'm just naively applying my programmers sense of beauty to legal stuff I see that happening a lot. Actually, it's more trying to apply tech skills to societal issues, often without really thinking through the consequences or the bigger societal impact. Sidewalk Labs Toronto experiments provides a nice illustration of such issues.[1], [2] & [3] One of the buzzwords that really gets my blood boiling is "Government V2.0". Life and society is usally quite messy and attempting to optimize it very often yields rather undesirable consequences, or just outsources the externalities to other parts of society. A simpler, more elegant solution would have been better in my opinion. Sure, that would be nice. But I think that's extremely hard to do with crafting legal frameworks. If tech has tought me anything in the last 20 years is that you will have people, entities and corporations just abusing the sweet bejeezus out of any loophole, which they can identify and get away with. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2018/08/08/sidewalk-labs/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2018/08/... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sidewalk-labs-privacy-concerns-1.4644449 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sidewalk-labs-privacy... [3] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/cracks-appear-in-sidewalk-labs-plan-afterfanfare/article38103236/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/cracks-appear-i...
      - Mirioron 7y ago
        A simpler and more elegant solution wouldn't screw over small businesses and individuals as much. An individual running a forum from their basement has to follow the same rules that Google spends tens of thousands on lawyers fees to figure out. Maybe exemptions or less strict rules for smaller companies should've been added. The EU isn't exactly a bastion of internet technology enterprises, so we probably shouldn't throw the few that try under the bus.
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  The problem I see is that politicians don't seem to have any good days.
  - vanderZwan 7y ago
    You are living in a complex, mostly functioning nation state where the majority of conflicts is resolved in a civil manner. Not in a small tribal society where you might be murdered by someone physically stronger than you simply because he lusts after your partner. That simple fact proves how hyperbolic and naive your statement is.
    - kmlx 7y ago
      wut? are we really comparing 21st century society with a tribal one? by that measure we've solved pretty much everything. when in reality the contrary is true: politicians are mostly career based opportunists and the inertial nature of our society pushes us to peace and prosperity.
      - gdy 7y ago
        "by that measure we've solved pretty much everything" Yes. And you need to appreciate this before you start breaking things. Life can go from good to bad, not to better.
    - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
      While that's obviously a very good point, one could also argue that this is mostly due to law enforcement and culture. We live in a society where murdering someone gets you outcast pretty easily, and on top of that thrown in jail. Politicians ultimately only wrote down what is a large cultural consensus. The problems start when politicians decide over smaller things that not everyone can agree on. I mean, damn, they'd be more than incompetent if they didn't get laws regarding murder right. The latest screw-up of european politicians (the same who are responsible for GDPR) is the european copyright reform, which just shows a complete lack of both technical understanding and willingness to listen to experts who do understand the situation.
- _0ffh 7y ago
  Yes, but the GDPR was definitely done on a "good day", relatively speaking. You don't want to know about the bad days. Stuff like the Copyright Directive seems to be the norm, not an unhappy accident.