6 ms·

I find TrueCaller very usefull. I used to get sooo many sales and robo-calls a day that I seriously considered just getting rid of my phone. Now they get automa

I find TrueCaller very usefull. I used to get sooo many sales and robo-calls a day that I seriously considered just getting rid of my phone. Now they get automatically blocked or I can just put them on a profile that they ring silently and hang up immediately. I get that this can be dangerous for journalists, but shouldn't they maybe investigate alternative ways of contacting sources privately? Mobile numbers are not in any way secure or anonymous in most parts of the world anyways. Hell, here where I live you have to register with your government ID in order to get your sim card activated.

duxup 7y ago
Mobile numbers are also often the most secure (even if not secure) / only way to contact someone in parts of the world....
- RikNieu 7y ago
  True, but for edgecases with no alternative means of contact, there could be other simple solutions. In the articles instance, Chloe could in the future register that sim, and then immediately tag it as Chloe Sullivan on TrueCaller(or whatever app they use in the country in question). Problem solved. Ta-da. There are solutions other than proposing regulations or limitations on apps that benefit waay more people than it might inconvenience.
  - duxup 7y ago
    I'm not convinced a single fake entery defeats the system here. The app claims to stop unwanted robo callers...I'm sure those robo callers already have tried your method to look like something else.
    - RikNieu 7y ago
      Not sure how their system works, but I set my name on TrueCaller and that's how it displays to others. I suppose of all my friends changed my name on their apps to Bozo, it would default to Bozo then. Who knows.
    - Piskvorrr 7y ago
      As a user of a different app, I see how many "user reviews" are there for the caller, by the rating (good/neutral/bad). For actual robocallers, the "bad" number is overwhelming, usually with a single "good" review - the spammers would need to flood the review system.
      - ambicapter 7y ago
        And if there's one thing that spammers are bad at, it's flooding systems with unwanted data...
  - shaftway 7y ago
    So you're suggesting that it's a user's responsibility to proactively register their number with every single third party caller ID service that exists and ever will exist? And you consider that a "simple solution"? It does not seem unreasonable for a service like TrueCaller to notify people that user-generated information about them is being irrevocably added to a globally public repository.
    - RikNieu 7y ago
      All I'm suggesting is that if a particular user is concerned about their safety, I would suggest they take steps to insure it. But if one wants to push for regulation to prevent the emergence of apps like TrueCaller, then perhaps we can start regulating robo-calls and sales calls more effectively? Then no one would need to install apps like TrueCaller in the first place.
      - shaftway 7y ago
        And I'm suggesting that your proposed solution isn't reasonable, or even discoverable for the majority of people. Clearly this person was concerned about their safety. And clearly they took steps to insure it. Arguing that the real problem is robo-calls is besides the point. It's like saying if people just drove safer we wouldn't have to have seatbelts. Or if I had bajillions of dollars we wouldn't have to have this discussion, because I'd be off on a beach somewhere. It's marginally related at best. But if that's the line you really want to take, TrueCaller could have a "That was spam" button, and if enough people click it then it could block the calls. The faux caller ID part doesn't need to be part of the service. Google Voice offers a somewhat similar service, but it flips the onus around. When enabled the caller has to identify themselves before the call can get through, and then the recipient can screen based on that. This approach is wildly more discoverable for the caller (who the information is attached to), and similarly filters out robo-calls.
    - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
      > It does not seem unreasonable for a service like TrueCaller to notify people that user-generated information about them is being irrevocably added to a globally public repository. If they live in Europe, as far as I'm aware, they should actually also need the users consent if the information contains anything like a name (which it most likely does) and a way for users to have their personal data erased permanently. Maybe there's some exception why they don't need to do this; can someone provide some more info on this?
  - fredsted 7y ago
    I'd suspect TrueCaller requires at least a few entries for a phone number before permanently labeling it.
mola 7y ago
If Robocalls are the problem, Truecaller isn't the solution. Regulations against unwanted harassment is. Robocalls are not a force of nature where our only recourse is a technological solution. They are a result of a human choice, where the absolute majority of individual think it's a menace. So our recourse is legal. band-aid solutions like Truecaller cause more problems. The Truecaller product is not a usual commodity where you choose it, and pay a known price. The actual price you pay is totally unknown. Because they require total access to your device without genuine disclosure of their intended use for it.
- tty2300 7y ago
  It also seems to be a problem unique to location. I have never in my life received a robo call in Australia but I did start to get sales calls until I put my number on the do not call list.
- neilalexander 7y ago
  At the end of the day, someone somewhere is granting robocallers access to the public telephone network. Hold those service providers legally responsible until they start taking action - it's not like there is no way to find out who they are.
  - Piskvorrr 7y ago
    A shell company, operating out of Vanuatu, with VoIP servers in Vietnam and Venezuela? Gl;hf.
    - PeterisP 7y ago
      International phone calls aren't free and unrestricted. It's quite feasible to arrange a regime where such inbound spam calls are economically unfeasible, and legally unfeasible within a regulatory regime e.g. apply large financial penalties to the originating phone company, of which there's a limited number, all are licensed, and can be prohibited from obtaining new licenses.
    - neilalexander 7y ago
makomk 7y ago
It's also worth noting that - as with almost any privacy-violating technology - journalists apparently sometimes use TrueCaller for research themselves.
Uplink 7y ago
I use "Should I Answer?" for this purpose. I don't have to give them my data in order to know who's calling me most of the time. It could block calls, but I don't use that feature.
blackbrokkoli 7y ago
Can somebody enlighten me why robo-calls are such a problem in the US? I'm completely ignorant of any relevant legislation or enforcement, but as a young German I can literally remember exactly two unsolicited survey calls in my whole life, both on a landline. This suggests some fundamental difference compared to the US which maybe should be changed instead of a third party band-aid app with lots of problems, but again I don't know this difference and thus will refrain from judging...
- ktpsns 7y ago
  Can confirm, being also a (not-that-young-anymore) German. Scam calls or phone marketing is very seldom here. I always assumed this is due to strict laws in Germany. Another thing is also that most people I know no more publish their telephone number in a (public) phone book, as it used to be still common 30 years ago. That's something where you easily can grab tons of private information from. How common are phone books in the US?
  - stOneskull 7y ago
    the scammers can't speak german
  - MiddleEndian 7y ago
    Phone books are supposedly common in parts of the US but they do not publish cell phone numbers. It's also illegal to telemarket to a cell phone. Of course, nothing is done when phone providers knowingly forward said illegal phone calls to cell phones anyway.
- rapind 7y ago
  For a somewhat amusing (if roundabout) investigation jumping off point into the robocalls problem: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/awhk76 https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/awhk76
- NikkiA 7y ago
  We get ~10-15 scam calls per day on our landline here in the UK, so it's definitely not a US-only problem.

duxup 7y ago

Mobile numbers are also often the most secure (even if not secure) / only way to contact someone in parts of the world....

RikNieu 7y ago
True, but for edgecases with no alternative means of contact, there could be other simple solutions. In the articles instance, Chloe could in the future register that sim, and then immediately tag it as Chloe Sullivan on TrueCaller(or whatever app they use in the country in question). Problem solved. Ta-da. There are solutions other than proposing regulations or limitations on apps that benefit waay more people than it might inconvenience.
- duxup 7y ago
  I'm not convinced a single fake entery defeats the system here. The app claims to stop unwanted robo callers...I'm sure those robo callers already have tried your method to look like something else.
  - RikNieu 7y ago
    Not sure how their system works, but I set my name on TrueCaller and that's how it displays to others. I suppose of all my friends changed my name on their apps to Bozo, it would default to Bozo then. Who knows.
  - Piskvorrr 7y ago
    As a user of a different app, I see how many "user reviews" are there for the caller, by the rating (good/neutral/bad). For actual robocallers, the "bad" number is overwhelming, usually with a single "good" review - the spammers would need to flood the review system.
    - ambicapter 7y ago
      And if there's one thing that spammers are bad at, it's flooding systems with unwanted data...
- shaftway 7y ago
  So you're suggesting that it's a user's responsibility to proactively register their number with every single third party caller ID service that exists and ever will exist? And you consider that a "simple solution"? It does not seem unreasonable for a service like TrueCaller to notify people that user-generated information about them is being irrevocably added to a globally public repository.
  - RikNieu 7y ago
    All I'm suggesting is that if a particular user is concerned about their safety, I would suggest they take steps to insure it. But if one wants to push for regulation to prevent the emergence of apps like TrueCaller, then perhaps we can start regulating robo-calls and sales calls more effectively? Then no one would need to install apps like TrueCaller in the first place.
    - shaftway 7y ago
      And I'm suggesting that your proposed solution isn't reasonable, or even discoverable for the majority of people. Clearly this person was concerned about their safety. And clearly they took steps to insure it. Arguing that the real problem is robo-calls is besides the point. It's like saying if people just drove safer we wouldn't have to have seatbelts. Or if I had bajillions of dollars we wouldn't have to have this discussion, because I'd be off on a beach somewhere. It's marginally related at best. But if that's the line you really want to take, TrueCaller could have a "That was spam" button, and if enough people click it then it could block the calls. The faux caller ID part doesn't need to be part of the service. Google Voice offers a somewhat similar service, but it flips the onus around. When enabled the caller has to identify themselves before the call can get through, and then the recipient can screen based on that. This approach is wildly more discoverable for the caller (who the information is attached to), and similarly filters out robo-calls.
  - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
    > It does not seem unreasonable for a service like TrueCaller to notify people that user-generated information about them is being irrevocably added to a globally public repository. If they live in Europe, as far as I'm aware, they should actually also need the users consent if the information contains anything like a name (which it most likely does) and a way for users to have their personal data erased permanently. Maybe there's some exception why they don't need to do this; can someone provide some more info on this?
- fredsted 7y ago
  I'd suspect TrueCaller requires at least a few entries for a phone number before permanently labeling it.

mola 7y ago

If Robocalls are the problem, Truecaller isn't the solution. Regulations against unwanted harassment is. Robocalls are not a force of nature where our only recourse is a technological solution. They are a result of a human choice, where the absolute majority of individual think it's a menace. So our recourse is legal. band-aid solutions like Truecaller cause more problems. The Truecaller product is not a usual commodity where you choose it, and pay a known price. The actual price you pay is totally unknown. Because they require total access to your device without genuine disclosure of their intended use for it.

tty2300 7y ago
It also seems to be a problem unique to location. I have never in my life received a robo call in Australia but I did start to get sales calls until I put my number on the do not call list.
neilalexander 7y ago
At the end of the day, someone somewhere is granting robocallers access to the public telephone network. Hold those service providers legally responsible until they start taking action - it's not like there is no way to find out who they are.
- Piskvorrr 7y ago
  A shell company, operating out of Vanuatu, with VoIP servers in Vietnam and Venezuela? Gl;hf.
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    International phone calls aren't free and unrestricted. It's quite feasible to arrange a regime where such inbound spam calls are economically unfeasible, and legally unfeasible within a regulatory regime e.g. apply large financial penalties to the originating phone company, of which there's a limited number, all are licensed, and can be prohibited from obtaining new licenses.
  - neilalexander 7y ago

makomk 7y ago

It's also worth noting that - as with almost any privacy-violating technology - journalists apparently sometimes use TrueCaller for research themselves.

Uplink 7y ago

I use "Should I Answer?" for this purpose. I don't have to give them my data in order to know who's calling me most of the time. It could block calls, but I don't use that feature.

blackbrokkoli 7y ago

Can somebody enlighten me why robo-calls are such a problem in the US? I'm completely ignorant of any relevant legislation or enforcement, but as a young German I can literally remember exactly two unsolicited survey calls in my whole life, both on a landline. This suggests some fundamental difference compared to the US which maybe should be changed instead of a third party band-aid app with lots of problems, but again I don't know this difference and thus will refrain from judging...

ktpsns 7y ago
Can confirm, being also a (not-that-young-anymore) German. Scam calls or phone marketing is very seldom here. I always assumed this is due to strict laws in Germany. Another thing is also that most people I know no more publish their telephone number in a (public) phone book, as it used to be still common 30 years ago. That's something where you easily can grab tons of private information from. How common are phone books in the US?
- stOneskull 7y ago
  the scammers can't speak german
- MiddleEndian 7y ago
  Phone books are supposedly common in parts of the US but they do not publish cell phone numbers. It's also illegal to telemarket to a cell phone. Of course, nothing is done when phone providers knowingly forward said illegal phone calls to cell phones anyway.
rapind 7y ago
For a somewhat amusing (if roundabout) investigation jumping off point into the robocalls problem: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/awhk76 https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/awhk76
NikkiA 7y ago
We get ~10-15 scam calls per day on our landline here in the UK, so it's definitely not a US-only problem.