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> Is it harmful to "feel" hungry and not sate your appetite? This is something that most people don't understand, given that we live in a world where food is c

> Is it harmful to "feel" hungry and not sate your appetite? This is something that most people don't understand, given that we live in a world where food is cheap and plentiful. As many people who have gone through fasting-based diets have discovered, there's a difference between "I'm hungry" and "I need calories, I'm getting weak and tired." Learning that difference is how you discover the actual amount of food your body requires, not just checking off three meals per day. The feeding patterns of our ancestors were very far from "eat as much as you want all the time with no physical effort required," and that was normal for 15,000+ years, so it'll probably take longer than the 100-200 or so since industrial food production began for our brains and bodies to adjust to the new normal. That, or we'll just have to start teaching our kids about cravings vs hunger vs actual food-need.

RickS 7y ago
> As many people who have gone through fasting-based diets have discovered, there's a difference between "I'm hungry" and "I need calories..." This is so true and it absolutely blew my mind to discover. Like a scifi plot where the air is "poison", you go outside, and... nothing happens. It was uncomfortable at first, but it's mostly mental. So much of the "hunger" signal is conditioning that, once you decondition it, it just goes away. Even when I'm fasted to the point where I'm mentally and physically sluggish, there are still no hunger pangs as severe as the ones I used to have between lunch and dinner when I never went more than 8 hours between meals. I can't recommend it enough. I don't enjoy any particular clarity boosts or lightness like some purport to have, but I do enjoy spending less money, dealing with fewer errands, and being less fat. I try to not eat after ~8PM, and to go for as long as I can without eating after waking up. In practice, this is usually ~1130 but sometimes as late as ~230. Then I just eat smaller meals, 50-70% of normal size. In this way, I can eat basically whatever I want, on the same schedule as anyone else.
- CptFribble 7y ago
  I had a similar experience when I tried intermittent fasting a few years ago. Most of us are so sedentary but eating like construction workers (at least I was). I also cut my food intake by something like 30-40% with nothing more than a week or two of discomfort.
javiramos 7y ago
You guys might be interested in this [0] classic study where a guy fasted for 382 days. He only took multi-vitamins during this period. His weight decreased from 456 to 180 lbs (0.72 lbs/day). [0] https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/49/569/203.full.pdf https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/49/569/203.full.pdf
- majos 7y ago
  So, fasting this long is only possible if you have a lot of weight for your body to somehow cannibalize?
  - opportune 7y ago
    Well, yes. Basic daily activities, maintaining your internal body heat, and keeping your organs functioning all require energy. The only way humans can get that energy is through food or burning fat. So to keep living without food, you need to be burning fat
    - skissane 7y ago
      You need to be careful not to lose weight too quickly, since that has risks of its own. It is a risk with extreme diets such as extended fasting. Excessively fast weight loss can cause liver injury. Most obese people will already have some degree of fatty liver disease (NAFLD), and while gradual weight loss is beneficial in reversing that liver disease, excessively fast weight loss can have the opposite effect and promote liver disease progression.
      - acct1771 7y ago
        Say why. Not only is it throwing off hormone/endocrine production, the toxins that have been stored in the fat cells are all being filtered through the body at the time of breakdown.
derefr 7y ago
I'm not clear on what "I'm hungry" means, other than "I need calories, I'm getting weak and tired." I don't experience anything until I experience that; being tired (after not eating all day) is the first sign my body gives me that I should eat something. What are the qualia of non-hypoglycemic hunger?
- CptFribble 7y ago
  I'm referring specifically to hunger pangs, or hunger contractions - a mild to moderate pain or cramping in the stomach that occurs when you've gone for a while without food. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(motivational_state)#Hunger_pangs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(motivational_state)#... I've met others who simply don't experience hunger pangs, but I've always felt them and I didn't know how fully in-my-head it was until I tried intermittent fasting a few years ago.
- abdullahkhalids 7y ago
  My understanding is that you feel "I'm hungry" when your blood sugar drop below its typical level. The typical level can be increased by eating a lot of sugary processed food over a long period of time. In other words, sugary processed food change your body chemistry to make you addicted to them. If you largely eat healthy food and are at a healthy weight, then "I'm hungry" is a reliable signal for "I need more calories". If you are not, then it becomes a one-sided biased signal.
tuesdayrain 7y ago
>so it'll probably take longer than the 100-200 or so since industrial food production began for our brains and bodies to adjust to the new normal. Do people with bodies that are better adjusted to industrial foods reproduce at a faster rate? If not then I don't see any kind of evolutionary pressure that would cause people's bodies to adjust over the generations. My impression is that evolution in humans has stagnated since modern society came about.

RickS 7y ago

> As many people who have gone through fasting-based diets have discovered, there's a difference between "I'm hungry" and "I need calories..." This is so true and it absolutely blew my mind to discover. Like a scifi plot where the air is "poison", you go outside, and... nothing happens. It was uncomfortable at first, but it's mostly mental. So much of the "hunger" signal is conditioning that, once you decondition it, it just goes away. Even when I'm fasted to the point where I'm mentally and physically sluggish, there are still no hunger pangs as severe as the ones I used to have between lunch and dinner when I never went more than 8 hours between meals. I can't recommend it enough. I don't enjoy any particular clarity boosts or lightness like some purport to have, but I do enjoy spending less money, dealing with fewer errands, and being less fat. I try to not eat after ~8PM, and to go for as long as I can without eating after waking up. In practice, this is usually ~1130 but sometimes as late as ~230. Then I just eat smaller meals, 50-70% of normal size. In this way, I can eat basically whatever I want, on the same schedule as anyone else.

CptFribble 7y ago
I had a similar experience when I tried intermittent fasting a few years ago. Most of us are so sedentary but eating like construction workers (at least I was). I also cut my food intake by something like 30-40% with nothing more than a week or two of discomfort.

javiramos 7y ago

You guys might be interested in this [0] classic study where a guy fasted for 382 days. He only took multi-vitamins during this period. His weight decreased from 456 to 180 lbs (0.72 lbs/day). [0] https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/49/569/203.full.pdf https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/49/569/203.full.pdf

majos 7y ago
So, fasting this long is only possible if you have a lot of weight for your body to somehow cannibalize?
- opportune 7y ago
  Well, yes. Basic daily activities, maintaining your internal body heat, and keeping your organs functioning all require energy. The only way humans can get that energy is through food or burning fat. So to keep living without food, you need to be burning fat
  - skissane 7y ago
    You need to be careful not to lose weight too quickly, since that has risks of its own. It is a risk with extreme diets such as extended fasting. Excessively fast weight loss can cause liver injury. Most obese people will already have some degree of fatty liver disease (NAFLD), and while gradual weight loss is beneficial in reversing that liver disease, excessively fast weight loss can have the opposite effect and promote liver disease progression.
    - acct1771 7y ago
      Say why. Not only is it throwing off hormone/endocrine production, the toxins that have been stored in the fat cells are all being filtered through the body at the time of breakdown.

derefr 7y ago

I'm not clear on what "I'm hungry" means, other than "I need calories, I'm getting weak and tired." I don't experience anything until I experience that; being tired (after not eating all day) is the first sign my body gives me that I should eat something. What are the qualia of non-hypoglycemic hunger?

CptFribble 7y ago
I'm referring specifically to hunger pangs, or hunger contractions - a mild to moderate pain or cramping in the stomach that occurs when you've gone for a while without food. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(motivational_state)#Hunger_pangs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(motivational_state)#... I've met others who simply don't experience hunger pangs, but I've always felt them and I didn't know how fully in-my-head it was until I tried intermittent fasting a few years ago.
abdullahkhalids 7y ago
My understanding is that you feel "I'm hungry" when your blood sugar drop below its typical level. The typical level can be increased by eating a lot of sugary processed food over a long period of time. In other words, sugary processed food change your body chemistry to make you addicted to them. If you largely eat healthy food and are at a healthy weight, then "I'm hungry" is a reliable signal for "I need more calories". If you are not, then it becomes a one-sided biased signal.

tuesdayrain 7y ago

>so it'll probably take longer than the 100-200 or so since industrial food production began for our brains and bodies to adjust to the new normal. Do people with bodies that are better adjusted to industrial foods reproduce at a faster rate? If not then I don't see any kind of evolutionary pressure that would cause people's bodies to adjust over the generations. My impression is that evolution in humans has stagnated since modern society came about.