4 ms·

Getting a targeted advertising that is likely relevant to you is probably one of the few positives of tracking. The issue people have with tracking is not 'wha

by treve 7y ago

Getting a targeted advertising that is likely relevant to you is probably one of the few positives of tracking. The issue people have with tracking is not 'what ad am I getting on a given website'. To get a targeted ad they need to maintain a database of privacy infringing information. 3rd parties having this data, and what they might do it with it (or who they might lose the data to) is what many people have an issue with. Being served a targetted ad is just a strong signal that someone out there has this private data on you. For example, chances are that google has a pretty rich database of your location history. If not you specifically, they do for most people. You can probably imagine a few different scenarios where someone else obtaining that data could be bad for someone. You're trusting google with it, but is that trust warranted?

chrisshroba 7y ago
Serious follow-up: I've always been fairly apathetic towards companies tracking me because I don't see too many plausible situations that would end up truly affecting me negatively. Do you have any examples (preferably that have happened in the past, but hypothetical are okay too) of what can go wrong if the tracking information falls in the wrong hands? Sure, street addresses, SSN's, credit card numbers would be bad, but why should I care if someone finds out that I'm a male aged 24 interested in backpacking, Apple products, and programming?
- OhHeyItsE 7y ago
  Hypothetical: individual pricing based on how likely you are to pay more for an item, or how badly they think you need it. Sharing of data across domains could place you in a "bubble" where you see the same price no matter where you look.
  - kabacha 7y ago
    That's exactly what a lot of airline websites do. If you're an active user of one try firing up a clean instance of different browser and it's very likely you'll see a different price. For products that can benefit from information asymmetry[1] fingerprints are an amazing tool. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry
- sfink 7y ago
  I think you have to break it down a little. There is potential harm to you individually, further broken down by "legitimate" parties with access to the information, and then problems where that big pile of data tempts hackers to steal it. For the latter, think of the time and location history of your children gleaned from photo location data (or the location data of their cell phones). Or just patterns that indicate when you're on vacation. For the former, I agree it's a little hard to find realistic examples that don't involve having something to hide (but if you do, those are easy: porn history, extramarital affairs, time spent goofing off on various websites, surprise gifts, pregnancy, financial problems, stalkers, ...) Still, do you close the door when you take a shower? Do you sing in public? Do you disclose your salary in casual conversation? Those might seem silly, since the discomfort there mostly hinges on fully public disclosure, but the data are getting shared so widely now that it's getting easier and easier for the data to escape to places where they can be pulled up by someone who is bothered by your NextDoor post. The other main category is the problems with massive numbers of other people's data being available to these companies. Those are more societal effects, like segmenting the population, radicalizing us, and setting us against each other. Outrage culture. Hyperpartisanship. Phishing. Vulnerability to external trolls/griefers/fake news publishers. Functionality being lost because it's overloaded by targeted spam. Harassment of minority groups (heck, you only need preferred language for some of that, though purchase history would reveal a lot more.)
- drevil-v2 7y ago
  You like Apple products and therefore you are a premium category customer. Dynamic pricing shown to you on websites will reflect that. Depending on the A/B rules in place you are paying a decent premium over someone with cheapo Android phone and looking for jobs in custodian services. If you think that is fair then I have a lovely Harbour Bridge in Sydney that I think I get you a great deal on.
  - kmlx 7y ago
    oh, you mean like people with internet explorer 7 paying more because their browser is crap? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18440979 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18440979
- tpxl 7y ago
  I'll give the example I usually give in this debate: In Netherlands, prior to World War 2, they made a "comprehensive population registration system for administrative and statistical purposes", which included the ethnicity. As a result, the Netherlands had one of the highest death rates among Jews. (I can't find a good source for this though, unfortunately)
banachtarski 7y ago
I would like to see legislation that prevents storing data in a way that identifying information could be derived from a legitimate hacker. I think this is far more practical than a blanket hammer banning all forms of tracking, as we're stuck with advertising for better or worse. Might as well actually make things saner.

by treve 7y ago

chrisshroba 7y ago

Serious follow-up: I've always been fairly apathetic towards companies tracking me because I don't see too many plausible situations that would end up truly affecting me negatively. Do you have any examples (preferably that have happened in the past, but hypothetical are okay too) of what can go wrong if the tracking information falls in the wrong hands? Sure, street addresses, SSN's, credit card numbers would be bad, but why should I care if someone finds out that I'm a male aged 24 interested in backpacking, Apple products, and programming?

OhHeyItsE 7y ago
Hypothetical: individual pricing based on how likely you are to pay more for an item, or how badly they think you need it. Sharing of data across domains could place you in a "bubble" where you see the same price no matter where you look.
- kabacha 7y ago
  That's exactly what a lot of airline websites do. If you're an active user of one try firing up a clean instance of different browser and it's very likely you'll see a different price. For products that can benefit from information asymmetry[1] fingerprints are an amazing tool. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry
sfink 7y ago
I think you have to break it down a little. There is potential harm to you individually, further broken down by "legitimate" parties with access to the information, and then problems where that big pile of data tempts hackers to steal it. For the latter, think of the time and location history of your children gleaned from photo location data (or the location data of their cell phones). Or just patterns that indicate when you're on vacation. For the former, I agree it's a little hard to find realistic examples that don't involve having something to hide (but if you do, those are easy: porn history, extramarital affairs, time spent goofing off on various websites, surprise gifts, pregnancy, financial problems, stalkers, ...) Still, do you close the door when you take a shower? Do you sing in public? Do you disclose your salary in casual conversation? Those might seem silly, since the discomfort there mostly hinges on fully public disclosure, but the data are getting shared so widely now that it's getting easier and easier for the data to escape to places where they can be pulled up by someone who is bothered by your NextDoor post. The other main category is the problems with massive numbers of other people's data being available to these companies. Those are more societal effects, like segmenting the population, radicalizing us, and setting us against each other. Outrage culture. Hyperpartisanship. Phishing. Vulnerability to external trolls/griefers/fake news publishers. Functionality being lost because it's overloaded by targeted spam. Harassment of minority groups (heck, you only need preferred language for some of that, though purchase history would reveal a lot more.)
drevil-v2 7y ago
You like Apple products and therefore you are a premium category customer. Dynamic pricing shown to you on websites will reflect that. Depending on the A/B rules in place you are paying a decent premium over someone with cheapo Android phone and looking for jobs in custodian services. If you think that is fair then I have a lovely Harbour Bridge in Sydney that I think I get you a great deal on.
- kmlx 7y ago
  oh, you mean like people with internet explorer 7 paying more because their browser is crap? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18440979 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18440979
tpxl 7y ago
I'll give the example I usually give in this debate: In Netherlands, prior to World War 2, they made a "comprehensive population registration system for administrative and statistical purposes", which included the ethnicity. As a result, the Netherlands had one of the highest death rates among Jews. (I can't find a good source for this though, unfortunately)

banachtarski 7y ago

I would like to see legislation that prevents storing data in a way that identifying information could be derived from a legitimate hacker. I think this is far more practical than a blanket hammer banning all forms of tracking, as we're stuck with advertising for better or worse. Might as well actually make things saner.