3 ms·

Of course, we can't discuss North Face behavior without getting to the topic of The Joos and their attempts to take over the world with their dirty money. And o

by smsm42 7y ago

Of course, we can't discuss North Face behavior without getting to the topic of The Joos and their attempts to take over the world with their dirty money. And of course since Israel recognized the achievement of Wales - who btw has zero control over Wikipedia content - he is forever tainted and everything he does is now part of the Jooish Conspiracy. Shameful. > Paid editing is everywhere on Wikipedia, believing otherwise is very naive If you spent about 10 minutes researching the topic, you'd know Wikipedia community knows that, and has specific disclosure rules, templates and requirements for acknowledging and disclosing paid editing and conflict of interest. Nobody pretends it does not exist. Undisclosed paid editing (known in Wikipedia community as UPE - use this to look it up) is what is prohibited and would get one banned.

bjourne 7y ago
Yup, I think state-sponsored editing of Wikipedia is shameful. "In 2008 the pro-Israel activist group Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) launched a campaign to alter Wikipedia articles to support the Israeli side of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The campaign suggested that pro-Israeli editors should pretend to be interested in other topics until elected as administrators. Once administrators they were to misuse their administrative powers to suppress pro-Palestinian editors and support pro-Israel editors.[59] Some members of this conspiracy were banned by Wikipedia administrators.[60] In 2010 two pro-settler Israeli groups, Yesha Council and Israel Sheli, launched courses to instruct pro-Israel editors on how to use Wikipedia to promote Israel's point of view. A prize was to be given to the editor who inserted the most pro-Israel changes.[61]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict-of-interest_editing_on_Wikipedia#Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict-of-interest_editing_o... "“Students work in four teams: Content, Wikipedia, Monitoring and New Media,” according to the program description. It details the responsibilities for each team: The content team is responsible for creating original content in a news format. The monitoring team is responsible for “monitoring efforts while reporting and removing anti-Semitic [sic] content from social networks in a variety of languages.” (The program conflates criticism of Israel with antisemitism; see below.) The New Media team is responsible for social media channels, “including Facebook accounts in English, French and Portuguese, Twitter, YouTube channels, and so on.” The Wikipedia team is “responsible for writing new entries and translating them into languages that operate in the program, updating the values of current and relevant information, tracking and preventing bias in the program’s areas of activity.”" https://mediareviewnet.com/2018/03/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/ https://mediareviewnet.com/2018/03/how-israel-and-its-partis... Can't this be discussed without you invoking antisemitic tropes? If you think these efforts have ceased because they happened a long time ago, then I have a bridge to sell you. The only thing that has changed is that they have become more covert. Possibly other state-sponsored actors have also infiltrated Wikipedia so it is not just about Israel.
- smsm42 7y ago
  > Yup, I think state-sponsored editing of Wikipedia is shameful. You are free to think anything you like, but it makes no sense. Why state-sponsored editing is worse that, say, Taliban-sponsored or Hamas-sponsored or just-random-dudes-hating-jews-sponsored one? > Can't this be discussed without you invoking antisemitic tropes? Me invoking tropes? You came to a topic that has nothing to do with Israel and started blaming The Joos and their dirty money, somehow presenting Israel recognizing Wales - who, again, does not have editorial control over Wikipedia - as something shady. I think you've made your bed. > Possibly other state-sponsored actors have also infiltrated Wikipedia so it is not just about Israel. You don't say!
  - bjourne 7y ago
    > You are free to think anything you like, but it makes no sense. Why state-sponsored editing is worse that, say, Taliban-sponsored or Hamas-sponsored or just-random-dudes-hating-jews-sponsored one? Because being paid to advance a state's interests by editing Wikipedia is morally wrong. Especially if you don't disclose that you are in a conflict of interest situation and you instead pretend to be a normal user. > Me invoking tropes? You came to a topic that has nothing to do with Israel and started blaming The Joos and their dirty money, I did nothing of the sort and I think you look very foolish by pretending that I did. > somehow presenting Israel recognizing Wales - who, again, does not have editorial control over Wikipedia - as something shady. Wales does have and exercises editorial control over Wikipedia. He has stepped in in numerous disputes and imposed his will. He has used his powers to get articles undeleted and reverted bans of users he thought were unfairly banned. Yes, I think it is odd that the WMF has never criticized Israel or its lobbying organizations for infiltrating Wikipedia, but The North Face's amateurish attempt gets scorned. The reason must be Wales' political biases.

by smsm42 7y ago

bjourne 7y ago

Yup, I think state-sponsored editing of Wikipedia is shameful. "In 2008 the pro-Israel activist group Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) launched a campaign to alter Wikipedia articles to support the Israeli side of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The campaign suggested that pro-Israeli editors should pretend to be interested in other topics until elected as administrators. Once administrators they were to misuse their administrative powers to suppress pro-Palestinian editors and support pro-Israel editors.[59] Some members of this conspiracy were banned by Wikipedia administrators.[60] In 2010 two pro-settler Israeli groups, Yesha Council and Israel Sheli, launched courses to instruct pro-Israel editors on how to use Wikipedia to promote Israel's point of view. A prize was to be given to the editor who inserted the most pro-Israel changes.[61]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict-of-interest_editing_on_Wikipedia#Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict-of-interest_editing_o... "“Students work in four teams: Content, Wikipedia, Monitoring and New Media,” according to the program description. It details the responsibilities for each team: The content team is responsible for creating original content in a news format. The monitoring team is responsible for “monitoring efforts while reporting and removing anti-Semitic [sic] content from social networks in a variety of languages.” (The program conflates criticism of Israel with antisemitism; see below.) The New Media team is responsible for social media channels, “including Facebook accounts in English, French and Portuguese, Twitter, YouTube channels, and so on.” The Wikipedia team is “responsible for writing new entries and translating them into languages that operate in the program, updating the values of current and relevant information, tracking and preventing bias in the program’s areas of activity.”" https://mediareviewnet.com/2018/03/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/ https://mediareviewnet.com/2018/03/how-israel-and-its-partis... Can't this be discussed without you invoking antisemitic tropes? If you think these efforts have ceased because they happened a long time ago, then I have a bridge to sell you. The only thing that has changed is that they have become more covert. Possibly other state-sponsored actors have also infiltrated Wikipedia so it is not just about Israel.

smsm42 7y ago
> Yup, I think state-sponsored editing of Wikipedia is shameful. You are free to think anything you like, but it makes no sense. Why state-sponsored editing is worse that, say, Taliban-sponsored or Hamas-sponsored or just-random-dudes-hating-jews-sponsored one? > Can't this be discussed without you invoking antisemitic tropes? Me invoking tropes? You came to a topic that has nothing to do with Israel and started blaming The Joos and their dirty money, somehow presenting Israel recognizing Wales - who, again, does not have editorial control over Wikipedia - as something shady. I think you've made your bed. > Possibly other state-sponsored actors have also infiltrated Wikipedia so it is not just about Israel. You don't say!
- bjourne 7y ago
  > You are free to think anything you like, but it makes no sense. Why state-sponsored editing is worse that, say, Taliban-sponsored or Hamas-sponsored or just-random-dudes-hating-jews-sponsored one? Because being paid to advance a state's interests by editing Wikipedia is morally wrong. Especially if you don't disclose that you are in a conflict of interest situation and you instead pretend to be a normal user. > Me invoking tropes? You came to a topic that has nothing to do with Israel and started blaming The Joos and their dirty money, I did nothing of the sort and I think you look very foolish by pretending that I did. > somehow presenting Israel recognizing Wales - who, again, does not have editorial control over Wikipedia - as something shady. Wales does have and exercises editorial control over Wikipedia. He has stepped in in numerous disputes and imposed his will. He has used his powers to get articles undeleted and reverted bans of users he thought were unfairly banned. Yes, I think it is odd that the WMF has never criticized Israel or its lobbying organizations for infiltrating Wikipedia, but The North Face's amateurish attempt gets scorned. The reason must be Wales' political biases.