4 ms·

> ..."free speech" in this case is a thin wrapper over white supremacism, Even though this is your opinion I find this statement extremely ridiculous. I don't

> ..."free speech" in this case is a thin wrapper over white supremacism, Even though this is your opinion I find this statement extremely ridiculous. I don't support or agree with their views, but free speech grants them the right to say it and I will defend that right (which includes everyone). The great thing is that you don't have to hear it, just block them if you don't like it.

ptah 7y ago
it is a fact, not an opinion
- rlt 7y ago
  I’m not saying I disagree, since I haven’t seen any evidence one way or the other, but maybe you or jtr1 could provide some evidence for those who haven’t been following Gab?
  - jtr1 7y ago
    A fair request. I did sign up some months ago to see for myself, but you can get a good idea perusing the references on their wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network)
    - ptah 7y ago
      as an aside i always find it amusing that agitating for removing freedom from people based on religion, ethnicity or sex is somehow considered an enshrined freedom
      - anon12345690 7y ago
        but you want to remove freedom from people just for saying something you dont like. thats bad too.
        ptah 7y ago
        it is not about something i don't like. it is about stopping people from ruining people's lives: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850
        anon12345690 7y ago
        what does this have to do with anything? censorship doesnt fix this
      - antepodius 7y ago
        You're advocating removing freedom from people you don't like. This is, presumably, also an enshrined freedom.
        ptah 7y ago
        it is not about people i don't like. i don't have any feelings either way about them. it is about stopping people from ruining people's lives: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850
      - ptah 7y ago
        it is not about something or someone i don't like. it is about stopping people from ruining people's lives: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850
    - rlt 7y ago
      I think it’s important to separate the actions and intents of the company from their users. Any platform that has free speech as a core value will tend to attract objectionable people and content. That wiki page is mostly about the horrible things some of their users say and do.
      - jakelazaroff 7y ago
        Elsewhere in the thread, I've posted a link to screenshots of their official Twitter account making anti-Semitic comments. Here's an image of their founder using a white supremacist hand sign: https://web.archive.org/web/20190530190836/https://inshorts.com/en/news/startups-protrump-ceo-removed-from-y-combinator-network-1479031577237 https://web.archive.org/web/20190530190836/https://inshorts....
        yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
        ... The "OK" hand sign?
        jakelazaroff 7y ago
        https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-trolling-gesture https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-...
        rlt 7y ago
        Did you read the article or even the headline? The ADL literally says it's a trolling gesture, not a white supremacist sign. You can argue that this type of trolling is bad because helps normalize white supremacy, but that doesn't mean their motivation is actual white supremacy.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    The "who to follow" on the left side of the post seems to rotate, but if I go down the list of what I see literally every member boasts some sort of odious point of view: - @OldEarthNeoFash, whose description literally says they're a Nazi - @AlexanderVI, who posts about how gay men should not be allowed to be President - @Reality_and_Truth, whose description boasts about "exposing Leftist scum 300 chars at a time" - @cashmoneyglock, whose posts reference Stalin "marrying Jewesses" and a conspiracy theory about MLK being a rapist - @BruceKenneway, whose description references Jews and white genocide - @AnthonyBoy, whose posts insinuate that Robert Mueller commits bestiality Try it! I'm sure you'll get a similar collection of terrible people. Remember, this is apropos of nothing. I don't have a Gab account, so they're not personalizing these for me based on accounts with which I've interacted before. It's just a random sample of people on Gab.
    - Fins 7y ago
      Frankly, if you look you can find people equally odious on Twitter as well. but if only people leaning in one direction get deplatformed there, of course they will congregate on a platform where they do not get deplatformed. Both end up as self-perpetuating filter bubbles (although Twitter might be slightly better just because its older and larger).
      - jakelazaroff 7y ago
        > Frankly, if you look you can find people equally odious on Twitter as well. You can, but it's a tiny minority of people on Twitter. When I load this page on Gab, literally every single recommended account is like this. A random sample of Twitter users will be basically the same as a random sample of Internet users and brands; a random sample of Gab users seems to be entirely alt-right, white supremacists and Nazis. Of course people who tend to get deplatformed will tend to congregate on a platform where they don't. But Gab actively courts this userbase. See for example https://twitter.com/ClenchedFisk/status/1027690034718224384 https://twitter.com/ClenchedFisk/status/1027690034718224384
        Fins 7y ago
- anon12345690 7y ago
  its definitely your opinion.
jtr1 7y ago
Yes, yes, we're all familiar with the Patrick Henry quote. If my statement is so ridiculous, then point out why instead of making bald assertions. I made no argument about the value of free speech. I am arguing that, given the fairly obvious clientele, it is reasonable to assume that principled fealty to free speech was not the driving motivation in Gab's creation. I don't think it's ridiculous to point to the specific content that makes up the majority of Gab and say you would have to be extraordinarily obtuse not to realize what and for whom you were building a social network.
- kgraves 7y ago
  > I am asserting that, given the fairly obvious clientele, it is reasonable to assume that principled fealty to free speech was not the driving motivation in Gab's creation. Well, I believe that free speech was the reason for Gab's creation, they were getting censored from other social platforms so they built their own. It just so as happens that over time they have attracted vile users to the platform who have way more unpopular views. So what are you really trying to say here?
  - jtr1 7y ago
    > ...they were getting censored from other social platforms so they built their own. It just so as happens that over time they have attracted vile users to the platform who have way more unpopular views. My point is that there is not much daylight between the former and the latter. Gab was not created in a vacuum by neutral arbiters of free speech.
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    > Well, I believe that free speech was the reason for Gab's creation And it's just a coincidence that the official account pushes anti-Semitism, right? https://twitter.com/ClenchedFisk/status/1027690034718224384 https://twitter.com/ClenchedFisk/status/1027690034718224384
- anon12345690 7y ago
  your misrepresenting on purpose. they created a platform for free speech. you get the bad with the good. so what? thats not evil.

ptah 7y ago

it is a fact, not an opinion

rlt 7y ago
I’m not saying I disagree, since I haven’t seen any evidence one way or the other, but maybe you or jtr1 could provide some evidence for those who haven’t been following Gab?
- jtr1 7y ago
  A fair request. I did sign up some months ago to see for myself, but you can get a good idea perusing the references on their wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network)
  - ptah 7y ago
    as an aside i always find it amusing that agitating for removing freedom from people based on religion, ethnicity or sex is somehow considered an enshrined freedom
    - anon12345690 7y ago
      but you want to remove freedom from people just for saying something you dont like. thats bad too.
      - ptah 7y ago
        it is not about something i don't like. it is about stopping people from ruining people's lives: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850
        anon12345690 7y ago
        what does this have to do with anything? censorship doesnt fix this
    - antepodius 7y ago
      You're advocating removing freedom from people you don't like. This is, presumably, also an enshrined freedom.
      - ptah 7y ago
        it is not about people i don't like. i don't have any feelings either way about them. it is about stopping people from ruining people's lives: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850
    - ptah 7y ago
      it is not about something or someone i don't like. it is about stopping people from ruining people's lives: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48458850
  - rlt 7y ago
    I think it’s important to separate the actions and intents of the company from their users. Any platform that has free speech as a core value will tend to attract objectionable people and content. That wiki page is mostly about the horrible things some of their users say and do.
    - jakelazaroff 7y ago
      Elsewhere in the thread, I've posted a link to screenshots of their official Twitter account making anti-Semitic comments. Here's an image of their founder using a white supremacist hand sign: https://web.archive.org/web/20190530190836/https://inshorts.com/en/news/startups-protrump-ceo-removed-from-y-combinator-network-1479031577237 https://web.archive.org/web/20190530190836/https://inshorts....
      - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
        ... The "OK" hand sign?
        jakelazaroff 7y ago
        https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-trolling-gesture https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-...
        rlt 7y ago
        Did you read the article or even the headline? The ADL literally says it's a trolling gesture, not a white supremacist sign. You can argue that this type of trolling is bad because helps normalize white supremacy, but that doesn't mean their motivation is actual white supremacy.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  The "who to follow" on the left side of the post seems to rotate, but if I go down the list of what I see literally every member boasts some sort of odious point of view: - @OldEarthNeoFash, whose description literally says they're a Nazi - @AlexanderVI, who posts about how gay men should not be allowed to be President - @Reality_and_Truth, whose description boasts about "exposing Leftist scum 300 chars at a time" - @cashmoneyglock, whose posts reference Stalin "marrying Jewesses" and a conspiracy theory about MLK being a rapist - @BruceKenneway, whose description references Jews and white genocide - @AnthonyBoy, whose posts insinuate that Robert Mueller commits bestiality Try it! I'm sure you'll get a similar collection of terrible people. Remember, this is apropos of nothing. I don't have a Gab account, so they're not personalizing these for me based on accounts with which I've interacted before. It's just a random sample of people on Gab.
  - Fins 7y ago
    Frankly, if you look you can find people equally odious on Twitter as well. but if only people leaning in one direction get deplatformed there, of course they will congregate on a platform where they do not get deplatformed. Both end up as self-perpetuating filter bubbles (although Twitter might be slightly better just because its older and larger).
    - jakelazaroff 7y ago
      > Frankly, if you look you can find people equally odious on Twitter as well. You can, but it's a tiny minority of people on Twitter. When I load this page on Gab, literally every single recommended account is like this. A random sample of Twitter users will be basically the same as a random sample of Internet users and brands; a random sample of Gab users seems to be entirely alt-right, white supremacists and Nazis. Of course people who tend to get deplatformed will tend to congregate on a platform where they don't. But Gab actively courts this userbase. See for example https://twitter.com/ClenchedFisk/status/1027690034718224384 https://twitter.com/ClenchedFisk/status/1027690034718224384
      - Fins 7y ago
anon12345690 7y ago
its definitely your opinion.

jtr1 7y ago

Yes, yes, we're all familiar with the Patrick Henry quote. If my statement is so ridiculous, then point out why instead of making bald assertions. I made no argument about the value of free speech. I am arguing that, given the fairly obvious clientele, it is reasonable to assume that principled fealty to free speech was not the driving motivation in Gab's creation. I don't think it's ridiculous to point to the specific content that makes up the majority of Gab and say you would have to be extraordinarily obtuse not to realize what and for whom you were building a social network.

kgraves 7y ago
> I am asserting that, given the fairly obvious clientele, it is reasonable to assume that principled fealty to free speech was not the driving motivation in Gab's creation. Well, I believe that free speech was the reason for Gab's creation, they were getting censored from other social platforms so they built their own. It just so as happens that over time they have attracted vile users to the platform who have way more unpopular views. So what are you really trying to say here?
- jtr1 7y ago
  > ...they were getting censored from other social platforms so they built their own. It just so as happens that over time they have attracted vile users to the platform who have way more unpopular views. My point is that there is not much daylight between the former and the latter. Gab was not created in a vacuum by neutral arbiters of free speech.
- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  > Well, I believe that free speech was the reason for Gab's creation And it's just a coincidence that the official account pushes anti-Semitism, right? https://twitter.com/ClenchedFisk/status/1027690034718224384 https://twitter.com/ClenchedFisk/status/1027690034718224384
anon12345690 7y ago
your misrepresenting on purpose. they created a platform for free speech. you get the bad with the good. so what? thats not evil.