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Fake news is neither about the availability of multiple perspectives, which have been around for millenia, nor about the power of the Internet, which has been a

Fake news is neither about the availability of multiple perspectives, which have been around for millenia, nor about the power of the Internet, which has been around for decades, nor about misrepresentations of fact, which have been instrumental to every war the US has prosecuted in the post-WW2 period. The term "fake news" appeared, along with an obsessive need to "fact check" and censor, following the election of Trump. It is the result of the inability of the establishment (i.e. liberal capitalists and Washington) to control narratives. Electing Trump signaled a grave threat to the control of this establishment and thus a need to tighten its failing grip on narrative.

krapp 7y ago
It's funny because you're literally just parroting Trump campaign and Republican establishment propaganda. The term "fake news" did not appear after Trump's election[0], nor was it created by "liberal capitalists and Washington," nor did any of the stories deemed fake news (ie, Pizzagate, Hillary Clinton's kill count, Hillary Clinton having some neurological disorder) represent any sort of hidden truths slipping through the grip of the establishment. "Fake news" always meant exactly what it indicated - false news items being presented as truth - until Trump and his supporters co-opted the term and rebranded it into something exclusively invented by his enemies to discredit him. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news
- astazangasta 7y ago
  It didn't appear then, but it became a grave concern at that point. Meanwhile conspiracy theories have existed for ever. Pizzagate is nuts, but so is belief in reptilian aliens controlling governments, etc. The energy to contain these stories escalated dramatically, with Zuckerberg being dragged in front of Congress, etc., after Trump's election. Meanwhile the biggest "fake news" item of the past few years was Russiagate, which escaped your list along with widespread condemnation from establishment media. I don't suggest that Pizzagate, etc., are true, merely that the sudden alarm about them is a symptom of elite anxiety. By the way, i am not a Republican and am not parroting anything. Please don't poison the well. Just make your argument.
  - krapp 7y ago
    You may not be a Republican, but you are nonetheless parroting their propaganda. Linking the phenomenon of fake news with a liberal media conspiracy while downplaying or discrediting any connection it had with Trump's campaign and his supporters is parroting their propaganda. >Meanwhile the biggest "fake news" item of the past few years was Russiagate, which escaped your list along with widespread condemnation from establishment media. Because my list was of items which occurred prior to Trump's election, establishing a basis for the origin of the term. And it has yet to be established to what degree Russiagate is fake news, although your attempt to dismiss through equivocation is recognized. For someone who's not a Republican, you're really good at their techniques and talking points, though. Mention liberal sour grapes or the deep state next, maybe you'll get bingo. The sudden alarm about Pizzagate, Zuckerberg and fake news is not a symptom of "elite" anxiety, but public anxiety over the sudden weight of influence that conspiracy theories and lies once relegated to the likes of 4chan and Reddit seem to have to influence the public. There is no secret cabal of liberal globalist elites who are harmed by any of this, it's only the public and their ability to discern the truth that's harmed.
    - astazangasta 7y ago
      It's not clear to me how you are identifying "public" anxiety, as opposed to the anxiety of Washington. We can observe the latter in the behavior of Congress, e.g. The former is unclear. In any case, let's go with "anxiety". Why is there sudden anxiety? Why should we worry about Pizzagate now while we didn't worry about similar things two years ago? The answer is simple: Trump was elected. He is not alone; there is a widespread revolt of rightwing "populists" in progress worldwide. Marine fucking LePen just beat Macron in an election. The people who support Hilary Clinton and Macron (i.e., "liberal globalist elites" to use your term) are materially harmed by this trend. They are desperate to understand how they can reverse it; but they refuse to consider that their ideology is simply unpopular. Instead, the problem must be "fake news".
      - krapp 7y ago
        >Why is there sudden anxiety? Why should we worry about Pizzagate now while we didn't worry about similar things two years ago? Because Pizzagate, along with other fake news, misinformation and slander campaigns, appear to have contributed in a nontrivial way to Trump's election, and all of them are by definition complete and utter bullshit. We should worry when obvious nonsense takes precedence in our political discourse over actual fact. You seem to believe "Russiagate" is fake news, so why aren't you as concerned about Pizzagate or any of the other anti-left conspiracy theories as you are about Russiagate? Is fake news only a problem when it attacks the right, and only a solution when it attacks the left? >They are desperate to understand how they can reverse it; but they refuse to consider that their ideology is simply unpopular. But Pizzagate is not an attempt to reverse any trend, or a legitimate criticism of any ideology, nor does it present a valid political alternative to any existing policies. It's just an extension of an already established right-wing trope linking liberalism and supporters of progressive ideas (particularly gay rights) with sexual assault and pedophilia. Again, we're not talking about actual news, but news that is literally fake. The Democratic Party does not run a secret sex-slave network and Hillary Clinton does not practice satanic pedophilic rituals. You and others may not support Clinton or Macron, but Pizzagate doesn't help your cause. >Instead, the problem must be "fake news". The problem is fake news. And the problem is people like yourself, who seem not to believe that the falsehood of fake news is actually a problem, as long as it targets the people you disagree with.
coldtea 7y ago
It's not just about Trump though. The establishment, power players, etc, wants to control the narratives, and be able to label "fake" whatever they want, whether it's against Trump or in his favor. They'll want the same power tomorrow too, when Trump is long gone. Back in the day, part of what's called "fake news", and basically the part the establishment didn't like, was labelled "disinformation".

krapp 7y ago

It's funny because you're literally just parroting Trump campaign and Republican establishment propaganda. The term "fake news" did not appear after Trump's election[0], nor was it created by "liberal capitalists and Washington," nor did any of the stories deemed fake news (ie, Pizzagate, Hillary Clinton's kill count, Hillary Clinton having some neurological disorder) represent any sort of hidden truths slipping through the grip of the establishment. "Fake news" always meant exactly what it indicated - false news items being presented as truth - until Trump and his supporters co-opted the term and rebranded it into something exclusively invented by his enemies to discredit him. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news

astazangasta 7y ago
It didn't appear then, but it became a grave concern at that point. Meanwhile conspiracy theories have existed for ever. Pizzagate is nuts, but so is belief in reptilian aliens controlling governments, etc. The energy to contain these stories escalated dramatically, with Zuckerberg being dragged in front of Congress, etc., after Trump's election. Meanwhile the biggest "fake news" item of the past few years was Russiagate, which escaped your list along with widespread condemnation from establishment media. I don't suggest that Pizzagate, etc., are true, merely that the sudden alarm about them is a symptom of elite anxiety. By the way, i am not a Republican and am not parroting anything. Please don't poison the well. Just make your argument.
- krapp 7y ago
  You may not be a Republican, but you are nonetheless parroting their propaganda. Linking the phenomenon of fake news with a liberal media conspiracy while downplaying or discrediting any connection it had with Trump's campaign and his supporters is parroting their propaganda. >Meanwhile the biggest "fake news" item of the past few years was Russiagate, which escaped your list along with widespread condemnation from establishment media. Because my list was of items which occurred prior to Trump's election, establishing a basis for the origin of the term. And it has yet to be established to what degree Russiagate is fake news, although your attempt to dismiss through equivocation is recognized. For someone who's not a Republican, you're really good at their techniques and talking points, though. Mention liberal sour grapes or the deep state next, maybe you'll get bingo. The sudden alarm about Pizzagate, Zuckerberg and fake news is not a symptom of "elite" anxiety, but public anxiety over the sudden weight of influence that conspiracy theories and lies once relegated to the likes of 4chan and Reddit seem to have to influence the public. There is no secret cabal of liberal globalist elites who are harmed by any of this, it's only the public and their ability to discern the truth that's harmed.
  - astazangasta 7y ago
    It's not clear to me how you are identifying "public" anxiety, as opposed to the anxiety of Washington. We can observe the latter in the behavior of Congress, e.g. The former is unclear. In any case, let's go with "anxiety". Why is there sudden anxiety? Why should we worry about Pizzagate now while we didn't worry about similar things two years ago? The answer is simple: Trump was elected. He is not alone; there is a widespread revolt of rightwing "populists" in progress worldwide. Marine fucking LePen just beat Macron in an election. The people who support Hilary Clinton and Macron (i.e., "liberal globalist elites" to use your term) are materially harmed by this trend. They are desperate to understand how they can reverse it; but they refuse to consider that their ideology is simply unpopular. Instead, the problem must be "fake news".
    - krapp 7y ago
      >Why is there sudden anxiety? Why should we worry about Pizzagate now while we didn't worry about similar things two years ago? Because Pizzagate, along with other fake news, misinformation and slander campaigns, appear to have contributed in a nontrivial way to Trump's election, and all of them are by definition complete and utter bullshit. We should worry when obvious nonsense takes precedence in our political discourse over actual fact. You seem to believe "Russiagate" is fake news, so why aren't you as concerned about Pizzagate or any of the other anti-left conspiracy theories as you are about Russiagate? Is fake news only a problem when it attacks the right, and only a solution when it attacks the left? >They are desperate to understand how they can reverse it; but they refuse to consider that their ideology is simply unpopular. But Pizzagate is not an attempt to reverse any trend, or a legitimate criticism of any ideology, nor does it present a valid political alternative to any existing policies. It's just an extension of an already established right-wing trope linking liberalism and supporters of progressive ideas (particularly gay rights) with sexual assault and pedophilia. Again, we're not talking about actual news, but news that is literally fake. The Democratic Party does not run a secret sex-slave network and Hillary Clinton does not practice satanic pedophilic rituals. You and others may not support Clinton or Macron, but Pizzagate doesn't help your cause. >Instead, the problem must be "fake news". The problem is fake news. And the problem is people like yourself, who seem not to believe that the falsehood of fake news is actually a problem, as long as it targets the people you disagree with.

coldtea 7y ago

It's not just about Trump though. The establishment, power players, etc, wants to control the narratives, and be able to label "fake" whatever they want, whether it's against Trump or in his favor. They'll want the same power tomorrow too, when Trump is long gone. Back in the day, part of what's called "fake news", and basically the part the establishment didn't like, was labelled "disinformation".