4 ms·

Richard Stallman Says You Should Worry About Chrome OS

14 points by dkd903 16y ago

JunkDNA 16y ago
I profoundly disagree with many of Stallman's opinions. However I have tremendous respect for his timing and ability to capitalize on the buzz surrounding something new, and use it as an opportunity to re-state his position.
- gcb 16y ago
  that's his job. it's not like he have to stop coding to write those. so i think it's very easy for him to be always on top of things
wccrawford 16y ago
FSF founder claims that something that doesn't abide by FSF rules isn't good? No way! Not that he doesn't have a point here, but I think people already realize that data in the cloud isn't fully secure. People are (individually!) choosing to trade security for convenience. But then again, given how many personal computers end up in botnets, maybe it's actually -more- secure in Google's hands than their own.
- mahmud 16y ago
  But then again, given how many personal computers end up in botnets, maybe it's actually -more- secure in Google's hands than their own. Fallacy. The vulnerable, zombie boxes are in the hands of Microsoft. Users have been helpless in securing their own machines under MS' suzerainty, just as they would be under Google's. The day you give users real control, whether they can handle it or not, is the day you will come to a full agreement with RMS.
ax0n 16y ago
He brings up some good points for those who agree with his stance. While they sometimes have a bit of wisdom to impart, I have a tendency to not listen to the jaded and disenfranchised old guard once they begin whining.
- mahmud 16y ago
  It was only yesterday when the cloud kicked wikileaks out. Then 200 private boxes sprung up, and came to its aid. When people own their data, and their computing resources, they tend to do whatever they want with it. Could you imagine waking up one morning to find your computing privileges revoked because you have an overdue parking ticket or some such?
  - brisance 16y ago
    Good points. Not to mention that a large, visible target like Google would attract even more people with malicious intent since the payoffs would be much higher. And no, Google is not invulnerable, as evidenced by last year's intrusions that originated from China.
marssaxman 16y ago
I won't use Chrome OS. Why should I let some unaccountable megacorporation own my data? The Google we know today is benign, but corporations change, and can be forced to change. Trusting Google with my data today would mean trusting all of the possible future Googles with my data, too, and that's not a bet I'm willing to take.
- vetinari 16y ago
  You know, that you can use Chrome OS with your own webapps, not just with Google's, right? It is just most people not only do not consider to be running their own appservers worth the trouble, but (if this thing catches up), they won't consider maintaining desktop/laptop computers, as we know them today, worth the effort either.
johngalt 16y ago
It's plain as day that people don't want to maintain their own computing environment. Do you think average Joe wants to worry about antivirus definitions? Patches? Drivers? Backups? Let alone building their own servers/services that handle their data. Chrome OS may fail, but the principle of computing as a managed service will happen regardless of any objections. The only questions are what form it will take, and how soon it will arrive. Here are my predictions: 1. Widespread adoption of a system very similar to ChromeOS 2. Huge vulnerability/breach of said system 3. Legislative overreaction creates laws intended to protect consumers, but unintentionally shuts the door on any smaller fish looking to get into the Cloud OS pond.
- gcb 16y ago
  if that means i can't customize it. than you are wrong. for a sneaky peak into the future, just see how many people root their android phones just so they can have the damn status bar black! and the main reason i resist going back to windows or mac, is the loss of control i will have over my mouse buttons. i like to move windows click anywhere with some modifier key pressed and my buttons [xmod]mapped "1 9 2 4 5 6 7 1 3" very much, thank you.
  - dualboot 16y ago
    I have to imagine that it's less than 10% of Android owners that root their phones. Certainly there is power in niche markets in this modern world where the barriers for distribution have been mostly obliterated by the internet.. That wonderful reality also blurs the importance of the majority though. Most people just want things to work without having to deal with it.
    - gcb 16y ago
      for most phones, root is as simple as copying something to the SD card, and booting with some buttons pressed. pretty 'cheap' in effort to have a [insert slang kids uses these days] skin.
cmoylan 16y ago
The best case scenario for cloud computing would be some sort of device that you could run on your home network that would provide services like email, web hosting, and file sharing. It would have to be painless to setup. Maybe it could backup heavily encrypted copies of your stuff onto off-site servers just in case. You could VPN/SSH into your cloud wherever you had an internet connection. Unfortunately, I think such a device would STILL be too much work for the average computer user when all it takes is a couple seconds to make a dropbox account.
- trotsky 16y ago
  It seems like it'd be pretty easy to roll those features into the broadband router - and everyone seems to be able to handle one of those pretty easily.
- zackfern 16y ago
  Sounds a lot like me for a perfect use for a Mac Mini Server or Pogoplug.
  - cmoylan 16y ago
    I use a spare computer and a couple virtual machines. The only thing that makes me nervous is the possibility of natural disaster or hardware failure. The Pogoplug looks like it's geared towards file sharing, but it's very promising.
trotsky 16y ago
I think he makes a good point about cloud stored data, but failing to acknowledge having a developer mode baked in to the OS and a trusted boot process that doesn't prevent modification was a real mistake. Google obviously went to great pains to buck the polar trends in OS security = either being in denial about the current security landscape, or removing all user control entirely for business purposes in the name of security.
Adaptive 16y ago
If your only tool is a Stallman, every problem looks like an OS. That said, data in the cloud is absolutely less secure from fed perusal. Of course, the lack of commonplace point to point encryption (see the Phil Zimmerman witch hunt in the early 90s) was in many ways a more critical nail in the messaging security coffin.

14 points by dkd903 16y ago

I profoundly disagree with many of Stallman's opinions. However I have tremendous respect for his timing and ability to capitalize on the buzz surrounding something new, and use it as an opportunity to re-state his position.

gcb 16y ago
that's his job. it's not like he have to stop coding to write those. so i think it's very easy for him to be always on top of things

wccrawford 16y ago

FSF founder claims that something that doesn't abide by FSF rules isn't good? No way! Not that he doesn't have a point here, but I think people already realize that data in the cloud isn't fully secure. People are (individually!) choosing to trade security for convenience. But then again, given how many personal computers end up in botnets, maybe it's actually -more- secure in Google's hands than their own.

mahmud 16y ago
But then again, given how many personal computers end up in botnets, maybe it's actually -more- secure in Google's hands than their own. Fallacy. The vulnerable, zombie boxes are in the hands of Microsoft. Users have been helpless in securing their own machines under MS' suzerainty, just as they would be under Google's. The day you give users real control, whether they can handle it or not, is the day you will come to a full agreement with RMS.

ax0n 16y ago

He brings up some good points for those who agree with his stance. While they sometimes have a bit of wisdom to impart, I have a tendency to not listen to the jaded and disenfranchised old guard once they begin whining.

mahmud 16y ago
It was only yesterday when the cloud kicked wikileaks out. Then 200 private boxes sprung up, and came to its aid. When people own their data, and their computing resources, they tend to do whatever they want with it. Could you imagine waking up one morning to find your computing privileges revoked because you have an overdue parking ticket or some such?
- brisance 16y ago
  Good points. Not to mention that a large, visible target like Google would attract even more people with malicious intent since the payoffs would be much higher. And no, Google is not invulnerable, as evidenced by last year's intrusions that originated from China.

marssaxman 16y ago

I won't use Chrome OS. Why should I let some unaccountable megacorporation own my data? The Google we know today is benign, but corporations change, and can be forced to change. Trusting Google with my data today would mean trusting all of the possible future Googles with my data, too, and that's not a bet I'm willing to take.

vetinari 16y ago
You know, that you can use Chrome OS with your own webapps, not just with Google's, right? It is just most people not only do not consider to be running their own appservers worth the trouble, but (if this thing catches up), they won't consider maintaining desktop/laptop computers, as we know them today, worth the effort either.

johngalt 16y ago

It's plain as day that people don't want to maintain their own computing environment. Do you think average Joe wants to worry about antivirus definitions? Patches? Drivers? Backups? Let alone building their own servers/services that handle their data. Chrome OS may fail, but the principle of computing as a managed service will happen regardless of any objections. The only questions are what form it will take, and how soon it will arrive. Here are my predictions: 1. Widespread adoption of a system very similar to ChromeOS 2. Huge vulnerability/breach of said system 3. Legislative overreaction creates laws intended to protect consumers, but unintentionally shuts the door on any smaller fish looking to get into the Cloud OS pond.

gcb 16y ago
if that means i can't customize it. than you are wrong. for a sneaky peak into the future, just see how many people root their android phones just so they can have the damn status bar black! and the main reason i resist going back to windows or mac, is the loss of control i will have over my mouse buttons. i like to move windows click anywhere with some modifier key pressed and my buttons [xmod]mapped "1 9 2 4 5 6 7 1 3" very much, thank you.
- dualboot 16y ago
  I have to imagine that it's less than 10% of Android owners that root their phones. Certainly there is power in niche markets in this modern world where the barriers for distribution have been mostly obliterated by the internet.. That wonderful reality also blurs the importance of the majority though. Most people just want things to work without having to deal with it.
  - gcb 16y ago
    for most phones, root is as simple as copying something to the SD card, and booting with some buttons pressed. pretty 'cheap' in effort to have a [insert slang kids uses these days] skin.

cmoylan 16y ago

The best case scenario for cloud computing would be some sort of device that you could run on your home network that would provide services like email, web hosting, and file sharing. It would have to be painless to setup. Maybe it could backup heavily encrypted copies of your stuff onto off-site servers just in case. You could VPN/SSH into your cloud wherever you had an internet connection. Unfortunately, I think such a device would STILL be too much work for the average computer user when all it takes is a couple seconds to make a dropbox account.

trotsky 16y ago
It seems like it'd be pretty easy to roll those features into the broadband router - and everyone seems to be able to handle one of those pretty easily.
zackfern 16y ago
Sounds a lot like me for a perfect use for a Mac Mini Server or Pogoplug.
- cmoylan 16y ago
  I use a spare computer and a couple virtual machines. The only thing that makes me nervous is the possibility of natural disaster or hardware failure. The Pogoplug looks like it's geared towards file sharing, but it's very promising.

trotsky 16y ago

I think he makes a good point about cloud stored data, but failing to acknowledge having a developer mode baked in to the OS and a trusted boot process that doesn't prevent modification was a real mistake. Google obviously went to great pains to buck the polar trends in OS security = either being in denial about the current security landscape, or removing all user control entirely for business purposes in the name of security.

Adaptive 16y ago

If your only tool is a Stallman, every problem looks like an OS. That said, data in the cloud is absolutely less secure from fed perusal. Of course, the lack of commonplace point to point encryption (see the Phil Zimmerman witch hunt in the early 90s) was in many ways a more critical nail in the messaging security coffin.