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On the other hand, all the security team needs to do is point to the number of billion-dollar breaches that have happened due to phishing. If phishing tests are

On the other hand, all the security team needs to do is point to the number of billion-dollar breaches that have happened due to phishing. If phishing tests are a game, then so are DR tests, so are code reviews, so is the QA department. If phishing tests are a game, then so are your yearly performance reviews, or showing up to work on time, or meeting your deadlines. Not destroying the company through your own negligence should be basic standard practice. Repeatedly failing a phishing test even when given proper security education (like PhishMe provides) is negligence that can destroy an entire company. I worked in security at a company where the IT security department didn't report up the IT chain but was under HR alongside the Internal Audit department. Enforcing policy and holding people accountable were fundamental expectations of our managers all the way up, no different than someone repeatedly harassing a coworker or watching porn at work.

Benjammer 7y ago
>all the security team needs to do is point to the number of billion-dollar breaches that have happened due to phishing A problem here is that a company whose leadership is receptive to your argument would probably already have mandated some form of security/phishing training. The ones who are likely to fall victim to these problems are the same types who do not plan for this stuff to begin with, and also would not be receptive to your hypothetical argument, imo. (e.g. "I don't have time for thought exercises, how many performance bugs have you fixed this week!?") The path to victory is far more often along the lines of teaching your leadership to care for themselves about security, rather than trying to beat them over the head with heavy-handed hypotheticals of doom and gloom if they don't listen to you and do what you say. They need to feel it in their bones themselves. Otherwise you're never going to get cultural buy-in from the rest of the organization.
perl4ever 7y ago
"Not destroying the company through your own negligence should be basic standard practice. Repeatedly failing a phishing test even when given proper security education (like PhishMe provides) is negligence that can destroy an entire company." The issue is that people are trained and required to ignore warning signs most of the time, so it is impossible to crack down too harshly. Employees by definition do not really care about destroying the company, because they do not own it and can walk away if they like. So the company does not have unlimited leverage over them.
megaremote 7y ago
So, do the security guys get fired when they misconfigure a firewall or give the wrong settings for a database?
- freehunter 7y ago
  If they do it wrong, get corrected with proper training, do it wrong again, receive training again, and continue to do it wrong, then yes. Anyone would.

Benjammer 7y ago

>all the security team needs to do is point to the number of billion-dollar breaches that have happened due to phishing A problem here is that a company whose leadership is receptive to your argument would probably already have mandated some form of security/phishing training. The ones who are likely to fall victim to these problems are the same types who do not plan for this stuff to begin with, and also would not be receptive to your hypothetical argument, imo. (e.g. "I don't have time for thought exercises, how many performance bugs have you fixed this week!?") The path to victory is far more often along the lines of teaching your leadership to care for themselves about security, rather than trying to beat them over the head with heavy-handed hypotheticals of doom and gloom if they don't listen to you and do what you say. They need to feel it in their bones themselves. Otherwise you're never going to get cultural buy-in from the rest of the organization.

perl4ever 7y ago

"Not destroying the company through your own negligence should be basic standard practice. Repeatedly failing a phishing test even when given proper security education (like PhishMe provides) is negligence that can destroy an entire company." The issue is that people are trained and required to ignore warning signs most of the time, so it is impossible to crack down too harshly. Employees by definition do not really care about destroying the company, because they do not own it and can walk away if they like. So the company does not have unlimited leverage over them.

megaremote 7y ago

So, do the security guys get fired when they misconfigure a firewall or give the wrong settings for a database?

freehunter 7y ago
If they do it wrong, get corrected with proper training, do it wrong again, receive training again, and continue to do it wrong, then yes. Anyone would.