4 ms·

Have you ever lived near an elevated train? They're not pleasant areas, especially compared to subway stations. The area under the tracks aren't very usable, ex

Have you ever lived near an elevated train? They're not pleasant areas, especially compared to subway stations. The area under the tracks aren't very usable, except as a roadway and parking lots. They're loud as hell, people on the trains can see into your home, the spaces around the elevated tracks are great places for people to do drugs and have crusty hobo sex. These criticisms apply equally to elevated roads. Most times it rained or snowed in New York City when I lived there, New Jersey Transit and PATH would have problems because of the issues of weather on outdoor trains. It only affected NYC's subway when there was flooding (which also affected NJT and PATH). The fascination with tunnels is that they're a much more ergonomic way to build infrastructure for the humans that have to live near them.

rayiner 7y ago
The area under elevated lines is unusable only if you make it that way. Tokyo is great at using space below bridges and elevated lines: https://images.app.goo.gl/zpq5T3m5FPSr4eoN6 https://images.app.goo.gl/zpq5T3m5FPSr4eoN6. As to weather, Chicago has tons of it and manages fine: https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/1/31/18204627/chicago-cold-weather-polar-vortex-travel https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/1/31/18204627/chicago-cold-w...
- swampthinker 7y ago
  The JR and Tokyo metro trains are significantly quieter and better maintained.
  - djsumdog 7y ago
    Yes and Chicago's stock is super old. The Orange Line is newer and is also much quieter and smoother. New rail in America, elevated, can be pretty quite and enjoyable. I like living near trains personally. It's relaxing to watch them go by in the evening, while sipping on some whiskey or wine.
    - protomyth 7y ago
      Your mind will eventually tune out the noise of a track. Our house was near a freight rail track that had a run all night. Never woke up after the first couple of days.
- 3JPLW 7y ago
  Yeah, we just set our tracks on fire. It's fine. (Well, that's the ground-level light rail — Metra — that does that)
  - BorgHunter 7y ago
    This is the first time I've ever heard of Metra referred to as "light rail". Metra uses enormous diesel locomotives and runs on freight rail ROW (for the most part)--there's nothing "light" about it.
    - 3JPLW 7y ago
      Yeah, should have said "commuter rail" instead of light rail. For some reason I have those terms jumbled in my head.
  - djsumdog 7y ago
    To be fair, most European commuter rail does the same thing. They just use electric heaters, so it doesn't look like their tracks are on fire. Chicago was built up with a big natural gas infrastructure for some reason (like every home seems to have gas heat/dryers) so I guess it made sense to put gas heaters on the rails.
guruz 7y ago
That sounds like a typical US problem to me. In contrast in Berlin, the areas with elevated subway belong to the most desireable living areas, e.g. the U2 in Prenzlauer Berg: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&biw=1047&bih=635&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=MeLuXLe7D5iN1fAPq5y5kAI&q=berlin+u2+prenzlauer+berg&oq=berlin+u2+prenzlauer+berg&gs_l=img.3...2415.5175..5345...5.0..0.189.895.11j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.w1t7hJ52Hvg https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&biw=1047&bi... Or check out the lovely bridges above Gleisdreieck-Park: https://www.google.com/search?q=berlin+u-bahn+gleisdreieck+park&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT0ajNwcHiAhVGYVAKHaALDG8Q_AUIDygC&biw=1047&bih=635 https://www.google.com/search?q=berlin+u-bahn+gleisdreieck+p...
- gen220 7y ago
  I used to take the U2 at Eberswalder Straße regularly, and agree it's a lovely station and blends in nicely with the charm of the neighborhood. I think the main issue in the NYC metro area is that the offending trains/platforms do not seem to take noise pollution (let alone neighborhood flavor) into account at all. The result is that the platforms and trains are unfortunately more like alien oppressors than helpful neighbors. It's also worth pointing out that today's Berlin is enjoying the fruits of an unique opportunity to rebuild their urban infrastructure post-ww2 (Gleisdreieck was an industrial train yard, for example). Much of the city was leveled, and then shortly thereafter occupied by East/West Germans with fiscally-backed ideological incentives to compete over who could build the most impressive X "for the people". Lessons learned: Maybe we should tear down NYC, split each borough in half down the middle, and give one half of it to liberals and the other half to conservatives?
- efficax 7y ago
  L stops in chicago are also very desirable locations. The parent is greatly overexaggerating the problems with elevated trains
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Seriously. Wrigleyville is a real slum what with the brown line cutting right through it, right? https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9485827,-87.6531626,3a,75y,227.53h,99.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syGWmp3nVefLqTTFayzVQvQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9485827,-87.6531626,3a,75y,2... (brown line runs right behind those houses).
vkou 7y ago
> The spaces around the elevated tracks are great places for people to do drugs and have crusty hobo sex. These criticisms apply equally to elevated roads. Tbf, the reason people use it for those purposes is because they are the most sheltered, out-of-the way places available. When they stop being available, that activity moves to the next most sheltered, out-of-the-way place available.
chrischen 7y ago
In Japan a lot of the areas under under train tracks or overpasses are converted to retail or business/restaurant spaces and coffee shops. Here (in the US) I've only ever seen 1) homeless people, 2) garbage, or 3) graffiti (and not the good looking stuff).
- rayiner 7y ago
  Japan is in some respects a much freer country than the US. US zoning and building regulations would never allow something like that.
djsumdog 7y ago
I love Chicago's elevated trains. There are plenty of people who live around them. I grew up next to a freight train track out in the boonies. You get use to it. They are way cheaper if you can build them. Look at how long it's taking Seattle to build ST3 (although it's going to be amazing when the Redmond corridor opens; I agree). America needs good transport now, in many more cities. Musk's tunnel ideas are just really impractical and will cost the tax payers more than the benefits of other types of standard/existing rail.

rayiner 7y ago

The area under elevated lines is unusable only if you make it that way. Tokyo is great at using space below bridges and elevated lines: https://images.app.goo.gl/zpq5T3m5FPSr4eoN6 https://images.app.goo.gl/zpq5T3m5FPSr4eoN6. As to weather, Chicago has tons of it and manages fine: https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/1/31/18204627/chicago-cold-weather-polar-vortex-travel https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/1/31/18204627/chicago-cold-w...

swampthinker 7y ago
The JR and Tokyo metro trains are significantly quieter and better maintained.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  Yes and Chicago's stock is super old. The Orange Line is newer and is also much quieter and smoother. New rail in America, elevated, can be pretty quite and enjoyable. I like living near trains personally. It's relaxing to watch them go by in the evening, while sipping on some whiskey or wine.
  - protomyth 7y ago
    Your mind will eventually tune out the noise of a track. Our house was near a freight rail track that had a run all night. Never woke up after the first couple of days.
3JPLW 7y ago
Yeah, we just set our tracks on fire. It's fine. (Well, that's the ground-level light rail — Metra — that does that)
- BorgHunter 7y ago
  This is the first time I've ever heard of Metra referred to as "light rail". Metra uses enormous diesel locomotives and runs on freight rail ROW (for the most part)--there's nothing "light" about it.
  - 3JPLW 7y ago
    Yeah, should have said "commuter rail" instead of light rail. For some reason I have those terms jumbled in my head.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  To be fair, most European commuter rail does the same thing. They just use electric heaters, so it doesn't look like their tracks are on fire. Chicago was built up with a big natural gas infrastructure for some reason (like every home seems to have gas heat/dryers) so I guess it made sense to put gas heaters on the rails.

guruz 7y ago

That sounds like a typical US problem to me. In contrast in Berlin, the areas with elevated subway belong to the most desireable living areas, e.g. the U2 in Prenzlauer Berg: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&biw=1047&bih=635&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=MeLuXLe7D5iN1fAPq5y5kAI&q=berlin+u2+prenzlauer+berg&oq=berlin+u2+prenzlauer+berg&gs_l=img.3...2415.5175..5345...5.0..0.189.895.11j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.w1t7hJ52Hvg https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&biw=1047&bi... Or check out the lovely bridges above Gleisdreieck-Park: https://www.google.com/search?q=berlin+u-bahn+gleisdreieck+park&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT0ajNwcHiAhVGYVAKHaALDG8Q_AUIDygC&biw=1047&bih=635 https://www.google.com/search?q=berlin+u-bahn+gleisdreieck+p...

gen220 7y ago
I used to take the U2 at Eberswalder Straße regularly, and agree it's a lovely station and blends in nicely with the charm of the neighborhood. I think the main issue in the NYC metro area is that the offending trains/platforms do not seem to take noise pollution (let alone neighborhood flavor) into account at all. The result is that the platforms and trains are unfortunately more like alien oppressors than helpful neighbors. It's also worth pointing out that today's Berlin is enjoying the fruits of an unique opportunity to rebuild their urban infrastructure post-ww2 (Gleisdreieck was an industrial train yard, for example). Much of the city was leveled, and then shortly thereafter occupied by East/West Germans with fiscally-backed ideological incentives to compete over who could build the most impressive X "for the people". Lessons learned: Maybe we should tear down NYC, split each borough in half down the middle, and give one half of it to liberals and the other half to conservatives?
efficax 7y ago
L stops in chicago are also very desirable locations. The parent is greatly overexaggerating the problems with elevated trains
- rayiner 7y ago
  Seriously. Wrigleyville is a real slum what with the brown line cutting right through it, right? https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9485827,-87.6531626,3a,75y,227.53h,99.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syGWmp3nVefLqTTFayzVQvQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9485827,-87.6531626,3a,75y,2... (brown line runs right behind those houses).

vkou 7y ago

> The spaces around the elevated tracks are great places for people to do drugs and have crusty hobo sex. These criticisms apply equally to elevated roads. Tbf, the reason people use it for those purposes is because they are the most sheltered, out-of-the way places available. When they stop being available, that activity moves to the next most sheltered, out-of-the-way place available.

chrischen 7y ago

In Japan a lot of the areas under under train tracks or overpasses are converted to retail or business/restaurant spaces and coffee shops. Here (in the US) I've only ever seen 1) homeless people, 2) garbage, or 3) graffiti (and not the good looking stuff).

rayiner 7y ago
Japan is in some respects a much freer country than the US. US zoning and building regulations would never allow something like that.

djsumdog 7y ago

I love Chicago's elevated trains. There are plenty of people who live around them. I grew up next to a freight train track out in the boonies. You get use to it. They are way cheaper if you can build them. Look at how long it's taking Seattle to build ST3 (although it's going to be amazing when the Redmond corridor opens; I agree). America needs good transport now, in many more cities. Musk's tunnel ideas are just really impractical and will cost the tax payers more than the benefits of other types of standard/existing rail.