5 ms·

Man Arrested for Leaving Food and Water for Migrants in Arizona Desert

28 points by _bxg1 7y ago

_bxg1 7y ago
Donation page: http://forms.nomoredeaths.org/drop-the-charges-against-dr-scott-warren/ http://forms.nomoredeaths.org/drop-the-charges-against-dr-sc...
rwoodley 7y ago
What's wrong with this government? The policy in these cases amounts to this: 'We will kill illegal immigrants'.
- minikites 7y ago
  That's the point. Republicans want immigrants to suffer, they want women who have sex to suffer ("pro-life" is anything but), they want anyone who isn't a straight white christian man to suffer.
  - methodiosmel 7y ago
    Strawman much?
minikites 7y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelt... >Trump’s only true skill is the con; his only fundamental belief is that the United States is the birthright of straight, white, Christian men, and his only real, authentic pleasure is in cruelty. It is that cruelty, and the delight it brings them, that binds his most ardent supporters to him, in shared scorn for those they hate and fear: immigrants, black voters, feminists, and treasonous white men who empathize with any of those who would steal their birthright. The president’s ability to execute that cruelty through word and deed makes them euphoric. It makes them feel good, it makes them feel proud, it makes them feel happy, it makes them feel united. And as long as he makes them feel that way, they will let him get away with anything, no matter what it costs them.
- magduf 7y ago
  It's not just Trump. Read the article: this policy is being enforced by countless CBP agents, sheriffs, the judiciary, and other government workers at all levels. Clearly, a very large portion of the American populace is in full agreement with these actions.
  - minikites 7y ago
    Read my article, every individual you mentioned shares the love of cruelty to others and that's the central thesis of the article. Trump is merely their avatar: >Somewhere on the wide spectrum between adolescent teasing and the smiling white men in the lynching photographs are the Trump supporters whose community is built by rejoicing in the anguish of those they see as unlike them, who have found in their shared cruelty an answer to the loneliness and atomization of modern life.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  My own parents, alas, are Republicans who frequent Fox News and voted for Trump. They aren't cruel people - they really have a great capacity for compassion. I've spend a lot of time pondering this contradiction. Here's what I've concluded: fear warps people. When someone ingests a constant stream of fear-pandering from their news sources and their peers, it totally shifts their perception of what's likely or unlikely, which means are worth the ends and which aren't, who to trust and who to distrust. My parents wouldn't feel good about a story like this, but they'd probably see it as an unfortunate but "uncommon" collateral damage of the law and order policies that are "keeping us safe". I think they genuinely believe there are hordes of gang members pressed against the border fences, looking for any chance to cross over and ravage the land, with only the occasional woman or child mixed in. But nobody is immune to fear. Different groups just find different things to be afraid of. I and many others on this site have had our worldviews stretched by fear of censorship, surveillance, corporate conquest, China. Even if a fact is true, any fear attached to it will compromise a person's ability to reason. Mindfulness is more important than ever in these times of internet-amplified sensationalism.
  - scarface74 7y ago
hprotagonist 7y ago
This has an old, ugly history. We are pretty much exactly recapitulating actions taken against religious leaders who were doing these things in the early 80s, and who were prosecuted under Reagan. They won by losing, then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_movement
DanBC 7y ago
I found this radio documentary about The Missing Migrants Project interesting. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01v5sq8 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01v5sq8 > In Pima County, Tucson, anthropologist Robin Reineke works on identifying the deceased, piecing together clues found among the personal effects found on the decomposed bodies found in the desert. Her goal is to trace the dead migrant's family to inform them of their relative’s fate, and ultimately return the body home for burial.
taylodl 7y ago
Some communities have made it a crime to feed homeless people. I like the angle of "sincere religious beliefs" - I think the Religious Right have no idea of the scope of the can of worms they've opened with that clause. Talk about your unintended consequences...
- hprotagonist 7y ago
  https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justice/florida-feeding-homeless-charges/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justice/florida-feeding-homel... The game of nonviolent civil disobedience becomes "make the government arrest people who obviously shouldn't be arrested for doing things that nobody should be arrested for, and make them do it on the national news, over and over until this changes" 90 year old vets, priests, monks, nuns, rabbis, imams, children, mothers with babies. The more dignified-looking and able to remain composed under pressure, the better. Nothing in US law specifically prevents the FBI from dragging sanctuary claimants out of church basements. It happened, in Vietnam protests. It proved to be counterprodutive because it was so obviously immoral and it was done with a news team on the premises.
latinio4trump 7y ago
Maybe we should encourage illegals to stop placing their lives at risk breaking the law, and crossing the border illegally?
basic6 7y ago
Stop breaking the law.
umeshunni 7y ago
Aiding and abetting criminals is a crime. Whodathunk?
- hprotagonist 7y ago
  Seeking asylum is not a criminal act, and is protected by federal and international law.
  - lykr0n 7y ago
    Seeking asylum at a port of entry is not a criminal act. Running across a border is not seeking asylum.
    - hprotagonist 7y ago
      That is a lie. When this law was codified, the authors went well out of their way to make it explicitly clear that "ports of entry" have absolutely nothing to do with it. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 8 U.S. Code § 1158. Asylum Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.
  - umeshunni 7y ago
    2 million people running across the border each year aren't 'asylum seekers' - it is mass illegal economic migration.
    - hprotagonist 7y ago
      Nope! The number of economic-driven migrants on the southern border of the united states has been falling for years, and is at a low point right now. I have neither reason, legal authority, nor moral authority to a priori doubt the legitimacy of asylum claims, and neither do you. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/17/falling-illegal-immigration-numbers-confirm-no-border-crisis/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/17/falli... http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1870-75992016000200065 http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S... http://theconversation.com/todays-us-mexico-border-crisis-in-6-charts-98922 http://theconversation.com/todays-us-mexico-border-crisis-in...
lykr0n 7y ago
>harboring, sheltering Harboring someone who is actively breaking the law doesn't seem that controversial. > leaving food and water Littering and providing assistance to someone breaking the law.
- mcfunk 7y ago
  I think a human carcass that could have been saved with food or water is much more offensive litter than a water bottle, but YMMV.
- eesmith 7y ago
  There's legal, and there's moral. It was illegal to harbor fugitive slaves. It was moral to break that law. If you think the issue is that clear-cut, you end up on the side of slavers.
  - umeshunni 7y ago
    It cuts both ways - It's illegal to harbor rapists, murderers, drug smugglers and sex traffickers. If you think that's legal, you're on the side of rapists, murderers, drug smugglers and sex traffickers.
    - eesmith 7y ago
      You omitted the "If you think the issue is that clear-cut". I don't think it's clear-cut.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Well, up until the 60s, it was also illegal to marry outside your race in some states. So should someone have been arrested if They let an interracial couple live with them? If you think this attitude is old - according to one survey, 20% of all conservative Christians in Alabama still think interracial marriage is a sin.
- ASalazarMX 7y ago
  Read the sheltering charges. They are probably cherry-picked, but even so, they are ridiculous and never should have merited arrests. These are good people being harassed for not looking the other way while human beings needlessly die in the desert. These immigrants are breaking your laws and it's understandable if they aren't accepted, but waiting for them to die crosses the line into evil. Sometimes the moral alternative is illegal, but that doesn't make it wrong.
_bxg1 7y ago
Not sure why this got flagged. It's not directly political, it's a human rights issue.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  Oh you know exactly why this got flagged.
  - ASalazarMX 7y ago
    I'm not sure about why either. It did occur to me that it could be racism/nationalism, but I'm not used to see that here, so I dismissed it and kept wondering why.
methodiosmel 7y ago
Showing compassion is always a good thing, and the man should be commended for that. However the law against aiding criminals is also a good thing that should be upheld. He deserved to be arrested. As an immigrant, I can attest to the fact that the USA has one of the (of not the most) compassionate immigration policies in the world. But people who continue to spread false information in order to push for open borders encourage these people to break the law and get killed in the process. So much strawmaning in this thread about the motivations of religious and conservative Americans, I'm truly understand why conservatives say you all live in a bubble. So sad.

28 points by _bxg1 7y ago

Donation page: http://forms.nomoredeaths.org/drop-the-charges-against-dr-scott-warren/ http://forms.nomoredeaths.org/drop-the-charges-against-dr-sc...

rwoodley 7y ago

What's wrong with this government? The policy in these cases amounts to this: 'We will kill illegal immigrants'.

minikites 7y ago
That's the point. Republicans want immigrants to suffer, they want women who have sex to suffer ("pro-life" is anything but), they want anyone who isn't a straight white christian man to suffer.
- methodiosmel 7y ago
  Strawman much?

minikites 7y ago

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelt... >Trump’s only true skill is the con; his only fundamental belief is that the United States is the birthright of straight, white, Christian men, and his only real, authentic pleasure is in cruelty. It is that cruelty, and the delight it brings them, that binds his most ardent supporters to him, in shared scorn for those they hate and fear: immigrants, black voters, feminists, and treasonous white men who empathize with any of those who would steal their birthright. The president’s ability to execute that cruelty through word and deed makes them euphoric. It makes them feel good, it makes them feel proud, it makes them feel happy, it makes them feel united. And as long as he makes them feel that way, they will let him get away with anything, no matter what it costs them.

magduf 7y ago
It's not just Trump. Read the article: this policy is being enforced by countless CBP agents, sheriffs, the judiciary, and other government workers at all levels. Clearly, a very large portion of the American populace is in full agreement with these actions.
- minikites 7y ago
  Read my article, every individual you mentioned shares the love of cruelty to others and that's the central thesis of the article. Trump is merely their avatar: >Somewhere on the wide spectrum between adolescent teasing and the smiling white men in the lynching photographs are the Trump supporters whose community is built by rejoicing in the anguish of those they see as unlike them, who have found in their shared cruelty an answer to the loneliness and atomization of modern life.
_bxg1 7y ago
My own parents, alas, are Republicans who frequent Fox News and voted for Trump. They aren't cruel people - they really have a great capacity for compassion. I've spend a lot of time pondering this contradiction. Here's what I've concluded: fear warps people. When someone ingests a constant stream of fear-pandering from their news sources and their peers, it totally shifts their perception of what's likely or unlikely, which means are worth the ends and which aren't, who to trust and who to distrust. My parents wouldn't feel good about a story like this, but they'd probably see it as an unfortunate but "uncommon" collateral damage of the law and order policies that are "keeping us safe". I think they genuinely believe there are hordes of gang members pressed against the border fences, looking for any chance to cross over and ravage the land, with only the occasional woman or child mixed in. But nobody is immune to fear. Different groups just find different things to be afraid of. I and many others on this site have had our worldviews stretched by fear of censorship, surveillance, corporate conquest, China. Even if a fact is true, any fear attached to it will compromise a person's ability to reason. Mindfulness is more important than ever in these times of internet-amplified sensationalism.
- scarface74 7y ago

hprotagonist 7y ago

This has an old, ugly history. We are pretty much exactly recapitulating actions taken against religious leaders who were doing these things in the early 80s, and who were prosecuted under Reagan. They won by losing, then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_movement

DanBC 7y ago

I found this radio documentary about The Missing Migrants Project interesting. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01v5sq8 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01v5sq8 > In Pima County, Tucson, anthropologist Robin Reineke works on identifying the deceased, piecing together clues found among the personal effects found on the decomposed bodies found in the desert. Her goal is to trace the dead migrant's family to inform them of their relative’s fate, and ultimately return the body home for burial.

taylodl 7y ago

Some communities have made it a crime to feed homeless people. I like the angle of "sincere religious beliefs" - I think the Religious Right have no idea of the scope of the can of worms they've opened with that clause. Talk about your unintended consequences...

hprotagonist 7y ago
https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justice/florida-feeding-homeless-charges/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justice/florida-feeding-homel... The game of nonviolent civil disobedience becomes "make the government arrest people who obviously shouldn't be arrested for doing things that nobody should be arrested for, and make them do it on the national news, over and over until this changes" 90 year old vets, priests, monks, nuns, rabbis, imams, children, mothers with babies. The more dignified-looking and able to remain composed under pressure, the better. Nothing in US law specifically prevents the FBI from dragging sanctuary claimants out of church basements. It happened, in Vietnam protests. It proved to be counterprodutive because it was so obviously immoral and it was done with a news team on the premises.

latinio4trump 7y ago

Maybe we should encourage illegals to stop placing their lives at risk breaking the law, and crossing the border illegally?

basic6 7y ago

Stop breaking the law.

umeshunni 7y ago

Aiding and abetting criminals is a crime. Whodathunk?

hprotagonist 7y ago
Seeking asylum is not a criminal act, and is protected by federal and international law.
- lykr0n 7y ago
  Seeking asylum at a port of entry is not a criminal act. Running across a border is not seeking asylum.
  - hprotagonist 7y ago
    That is a lie. When this law was codified, the authors went well out of their way to make it explicitly clear that "ports of entry" have absolutely nothing to do with it. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 8 U.S. Code § 1158. Asylum Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.
- umeshunni 7y ago
  2 million people running across the border each year aren't 'asylum seekers' - it is mass illegal economic migration.
  - hprotagonist 7y ago
    Nope! The number of economic-driven migrants on the southern border of the united states has been falling for years, and is at a low point right now. I have neither reason, legal authority, nor moral authority to a priori doubt the legitimacy of asylum claims, and neither do you. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/17/falling-illegal-immigration-numbers-confirm-no-border-crisis/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/17/falli... http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1870-75992016000200065 http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S... http://theconversation.com/todays-us-mexico-border-crisis-in-6-charts-98922 http://theconversation.com/todays-us-mexico-border-crisis-in...

lykr0n 7y ago

>harboring, sheltering Harboring someone who is actively breaking the law doesn't seem that controversial. > leaving food and water Littering and providing assistance to someone breaking the law.

mcfunk 7y ago
I think a human carcass that could have been saved with food or water is much more offensive litter than a water bottle, but YMMV.
eesmith 7y ago
There's legal, and there's moral. It was illegal to harbor fugitive slaves. It was moral to break that law. If you think the issue is that clear-cut, you end up on the side of slavers.
- umeshunni 7y ago
  It cuts both ways - It's illegal to harbor rapists, murderers, drug smugglers and sex traffickers. If you think that's legal, you're on the side of rapists, murderers, drug smugglers and sex traffickers.
  - eesmith 7y ago
    You omitted the "If you think the issue is that clear-cut". I don't think it's clear-cut.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Well, up until the 60s, it was also illegal to marry outside your race in some states. So should someone have been arrested if They let an interracial couple live with them? If you think this attitude is old - according to one survey, 20% of all conservative Christians in Alabama still think interracial marriage is a sin.
ASalazarMX 7y ago
Read the sheltering charges. They are probably cherry-picked, but even so, they are ridiculous and never should have merited arrests. These are good people being harassed for not looking the other way while human beings needlessly die in the desert. These immigrants are breaking your laws and it's understandable if they aren't accepted, but waiting for them to die crosses the line into evil. Sometimes the moral alternative is illegal, but that doesn't make it wrong.

_bxg1 7y ago

Not sure why this got flagged. It's not directly political, it's a human rights issue.

Gibbon1 7y ago
Oh you know exactly why this got flagged.
- ASalazarMX 7y ago
  I'm not sure about why either. It did occur to me that it could be racism/nationalism, but I'm not used to see that here, so I dismissed it and kept wondering why.

methodiosmel 7y ago

Showing compassion is always a good thing, and the man should be commended for that. However the law against aiding criminals is also a good thing that should be upheld. He deserved to be arrested. As an immigrant, I can attest to the fact that the USA has one of the (of not the most) compassionate immigration policies in the world. But people who continue to spread false information in order to push for open borders encourage these people to break the law and get killed in the process. So much strawmaning in this thread about the motivations of religious and conservative Americans, I'm truly understand why conservatives say you all live in a bubble. So sad.