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> Not get a education and then be further disadvantaged? Why would you be disadvantaged? Not going to college isn't going to give you down syndrome to limit yo

> Not get a education and then be further disadvantaged? Why would you be disadvantaged? Not going to college isn't going to give you down syndrome to limit your career advancement. However, it is true if you already have down syndrome, you are going to really struggle to get into a college and are very likely to struggle in the workplace. We need to be careful to not conflate the two. It is true that people with higher levels of scholastic attainment are statistically more likely to be successful in the workplace. However, more interesting is the change over time. With a substantial increase in post secondary attainment over the last several decades, what hasn't changed is the level of success in the workplace. Incomes are stagnant. Job quality is in decline. If education gave advantages, the more and more people being formally educated to a higher degree should result in rising incomes and/or job quality should be increasing, not the opposite. Which brings me back to my opening paragraph. Post secondary schooling appears to provide an advantage only because it has already filtered out anyone who is inherently disadvantaged. It does not create advantages and disadvantages, it only reflects the advantages and disadvantages which are already present.

maxxxxx 7y ago
If you don’t have a college degree your choices of companies who are willing to even talk to you for a well paying job is very small.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  This is definitely not true (source, myself -- sans degree). You have to do something though. Github, community projects, start a small business... University takes an incredible amount of time and money. If people put their resources into more independent endeavours, they'd certainly see a return on the investment greater than most college degrees. If you've done something interesting (and really having a degree isn't all that interesting), then large companies will be happy to talk to you.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    You're only thinking of development, which is still a bit of the wild west when it comes to figuring out who does what.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      Not true, it works for any field where you can show a "portfolio". I've seen designers, craftspeople.. all capitalize on this method.
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    When I was 18 i could not have figured out how to approach this. And i had nobody who could have told me what to do. Getting a degree is still the safe option. In addition at least in The big companies I know having no degree is pretty much a showstopper. You simply won’t get an interview
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      When I was 18 I also had nobody who told me to do this. I figured it out on my own (something I think all 18 year olds are actually capable of). Any giant tech company will all happily interview you if you have a good portfolio without a degree. All of this takes work of course, but not more work than getting a degree. It does take a lot of independent thought and strength to do what you think is right even when others are telling you it's wrong though.
      - maxxxxx 7y ago
        I guess you were way ahead at the age of 18. I had no clue how the workplace works so I got a degree which then got me started. For me that was a good decision.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Helping to educate young people about their options and inoculate them against mainstream marketing (overt and covert), would help give people other routes than taking on massive debt. That in itself is a massive business transaction so it's probably best for people to understand how the labor market works before committing so much time and money to a decision they may later regret.
SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
The whole point of this article is that people are experiencing buyer's remorse over their degree - framing this as a choice of whether to go to college or not. If you have the choice (which you absolutely do - I know people who were entirely capable of going to college and didn't - I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Down's Syndrome reference), to make the choice not to get an education puts you at a disadvantage and lowers your odds of being successful in the workplace. I'm not saying the current situation doesn't suck - but these are people trying to make the most of it by doing what they think is the best move for their situation.
- randomdata 7y ago
  > to make the choice not to get an education puts you at a disadvantage and lowers your odds of being successful in the workplace. That's simply not true. Despite a sharp rise in post secondary attainment, workplace success has not meaningfully changed in many decades. Incomes are stagnant. Job quality is reportedly in decline. Where are you seeing the gain in workplace success with the rise of post secondary attainment? I expect what you are really referring to is that those with higher levels of scholastic attainment are statistically more likely to have a higher income than those with lesser levels, but like I said before, that is because people with down syndrome (to stick with the example), who will statistically struggle in the workplace, never had a chance to go to college in the first place. Not all people are equal. A lot of people simply do not have what it takes to be accepted into college, and if they manage to be accepted, they fail under the academic rigour. The same qualities that see them struggle in school are what also result in struggles in the workplace. If you could theoretically graduate from college with flying colours, you're already destined to be successful in the workplace, even if you never go to college.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    Only 27% of people in the US have a bachelor's degree[1]. Are you implying that the other 73% would be simply unable to attain the degree? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...

maxxxxx 7y ago

If you don’t have a college degree your choices of companies who are willing to even talk to you for a well paying job is very small.

malvosenior 7y ago
This is definitely not true (source, myself -- sans degree). You have to do something though. Github, community projects, start a small business... University takes an incredible amount of time and money. If people put their resources into more independent endeavours, they'd certainly see a return on the investment greater than most college degrees. If you've done something interesting (and really having a degree isn't all that interesting), then large companies will be happy to talk to you.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  You're only thinking of development, which is still a bit of the wild west when it comes to figuring out who does what.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    Not true, it works for any field where you can show a "portfolio". I've seen designers, craftspeople.. all capitalize on this method.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  When I was 18 i could not have figured out how to approach this. And i had nobody who could have told me what to do. Getting a degree is still the safe option. In addition at least in The big companies I know having no degree is pretty much a showstopper. You simply won’t get an interview
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    When I was 18 I also had nobody who told me to do this. I figured it out on my own (something I think all 18 year olds are actually capable of). Any giant tech company will all happily interview you if you have a good portfolio without a degree. All of this takes work of course, but not more work than getting a degree. It does take a lot of independent thought and strength to do what you think is right even when others are telling you it's wrong though.
    - maxxxxx 7y ago
      I guess you were way ahead at the age of 18. I had no clue how the workplace works so I got a degree which then got me started. For me that was a good decision.
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        Helping to educate young people about their options and inoculate them against mainstream marketing (overt and covert), would help give people other routes than taking on massive debt. That in itself is a massive business transaction so it's probably best for people to understand how the labor market works before committing so much time and money to a decision they may later regret.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago

The whole point of this article is that people are experiencing buyer's remorse over their degree - framing this as a choice of whether to go to college or not. If you have the choice (which you absolutely do - I know people who were entirely capable of going to college and didn't - I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Down's Syndrome reference), to make the choice not to get an education puts you at a disadvantage and lowers your odds of being successful in the workplace. I'm not saying the current situation doesn't suck - but these are people trying to make the most of it by doing what they think is the best move for their situation.

randomdata 7y ago
> to make the choice not to get an education puts you at a disadvantage and lowers your odds of being successful in the workplace. That's simply not true. Despite a sharp rise in post secondary attainment, workplace success has not meaningfully changed in many decades. Incomes are stagnant. Job quality is reportedly in decline. Where are you seeing the gain in workplace success with the rise of post secondary attainment? I expect what you are really referring to is that those with higher levels of scholastic attainment are statistically more likely to have a higher income than those with lesser levels, but like I said before, that is because people with down syndrome (to stick with the example), who will statistically struggle in the workplace, never had a chance to go to college in the first place. Not all people are equal. A lot of people simply do not have what it takes to be accepted into college, and if they manage to be accepted, they fail under the academic rigour. The same qualities that see them struggle in school are what also result in struggles in the workplace. If you could theoretically graduate from college with flying colours, you're already destined to be successful in the workplace, even if you never go to college.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  Only 27% of people in the US have a bachelor's degree[1]. Are you implying that the other 73% would be simply unable to attain the degree? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...