4 ms·

Ask HN: What's HN community opinion on 5G health issues?

12 points by Biba 7y ago

Wired and many other news outlets are writing about health concerns, opinions are different, so I'm interested to hear the opinion of HN community.

Tepix 7y ago
I wasn't even aware of health concerns. My first uninformed impulse reaction: More cell towers means lower signal strength which means less risk of health issues.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
maxehmookau 7y ago
The only people I've seen suggesting that it has health implications have been hanging out in my city centre also claiming that 9/11 was an inside job and that InfoWars is a legitimate news source. This is in the UK! ...so I'm not convinced of any issues so far.
- kypro 7y ago
  That seems a fairly accurate observation, but that alone isn't a good reason to be dismissive of health concerns. Personally I'm more worried about the privacy concerns. There is money to be made from mass surveillance after all, I'm not sure what the motivation would be to give citizens a higher rate of cancer.
- guilhas 7y ago
  9/11 being an inside job is still more plausible than any other theory or "investigation" conclusion really.
  - maxehmookau 7y ago
    It's definitely not. But thanks for playing along.
Ultramanoid 7y ago
Related : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19595450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19595450
mruts 7y ago
Isn’t that just a narrative pushed by RT as Russian propaganda?
- coldtea 7y ago
  No, that's just what people who believe in conspiracies (like "everything is Russian propaganda") believe. Except if you consider the "US department of health" as Russian agents: "The NTP studies found that high exposure to RFR used by cell phones was associated with: Clear evidence of tumors in the hearts of male rats. The tumors were malignant schwannomas. Some evidence of tumors in the brains of male rats. The tumors were malignant gliomas. Some evidence of tumors in the adrenal glands of male rats. The tumors were benign, malignant, or complex combined pheochromocytoma." https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/results/areas/cellphones/index.html https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/results/areas/cellphones/index.htm... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29530389 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29530389 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X15003988 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X1... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298533689_International_Appeal_Scientists_call_for_protection_from_non-ionizing_electromagnetic_field_exposure https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298533689_Internati... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29459303 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29459303 "The results also show that the peak-to-average ratio of 1,000 tolerated by the International Council on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection guidelines may lead to permanent tissue damage after even short exposures, highlighting the importance of revisiting existing exposure guidelines." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30247338 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30247338 "Our results show that 5G downlink RF fields generate significantly higher power density (PD) and specific absorption rate (SAR) than a current cellular system. This paper also shows that SAR should also be taken into account for determining human RF exposure in the mmW downlink." https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.03683 https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.03683 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412012002334 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016041201... "Preliminary observations showed that MMW increase skin temperature, alter gene expression, promote cellular proliferation and synthesis of proteins linked with oxidative stress, inflammatory and metabolic processes, could generate ocular damages, affect neuro-muscular dynamics." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29402696 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29402696 "The analysis of various antioxidants in the plasma of exposed individuals revealed a significant attrition in glutathione (GSH) concentration (p < 0.01), activities of catalase (CAT) (p < 0.001) and superoxide dismutase (SOD) (p < 0.001) and rise in lipid peroxidation (LOO) when compared to controls. Multiple linear regression analyses revealed a significant association among reduced GSH concentration (p < 0.05), CAT (p < 0.001) and SOD (p < 0.001) activities and elevated MN frequency (p < 0.001) and LOO (p < 0.001) with increasing RF power density." https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318916428_Impact_of_radiofrequency_radiation_on_DNA_damage_and_antioxidants_in_peripheral_blood_lymphocytes_of_humans_residing_in_the_vicinity_of_mobile_phone_base_stations https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318916428_Impact_of... "► Base Station (BS) clusters and deaths by neoplasia in the Belo Horizonte municipality have been identified. ► The mortality rate has been higher for the residents within an area of 500 m from the BS. ► The radiation superposition near the BS has also been observed; the nearer the stronger. ► Measured values stay below Brazilian Federal Law limits that are the same of ICNIRP. ► The human exposure pattern guidelines are inadequate. More restrictive limits must be adopted urgently." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969711005754 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971... http://www.5gappeal.eu/signatories-to-scientists-5g-appeal/ http://www.5gappeal.eu/signatories-to-scientists-5g-appeal/ https://mdsafetech.org/2018/07/18/dr-leszczynski-sounds-warning-at-australian-meeting-precaution-with-5g/ https://mdsafetech.org/2018/07/18/dr-leszczynski-sounds-warn... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DNh0DEBrK8LyQjP1uTUjYMFguO4cF4hR/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DNh0DEBrK8LyQjP1uTUjYMFguO4...
decoyworker 7y ago
It's non-ionizing radiation. I don't worry about health issues from 5G.
SigmundA 7y ago
Although we should always be studying potential risks, I have little concern. Just keep it in perspective, you walk around outside under a nuclear fusion fireball receiving around 1000 watts of terahertz radiation some of it ionizing and known to cause cancer. Wifi, Cell including 5G are in the Gigahertz range, non-ionizing, which means they can basically heat your flesh like a microwave and nothing more and are at milliwatt power levels from the phones transmitter and maybe a hundred watts from the towers transmitter. This would be like worrying about what an led flashlight (the phone) or street light (the cell station) does to you.
Spooky23 7y ago
It’s a difficult issue, as the people carrying the water on it tend to overlap with ignorant constituencies like anti-vaxers. I know there was concern in the 90s about military exposure to millimeter wave radars, and I’ve never read anything credible about the outcome of whatever studies were done, good or bad. I know that the 24 GHz bands are part of 5G and also related to vehicle networks, so I assume that all major roads will be blanketed with coverage. My biggest concern with 5G is the FCC declaring every telephone pole “critical infrastructure” and removing or limiting the ability of local governments set rules. In my city, the incompetent response on the city’s part means that Verizon is dropping poles in the optimal (from a cost/radio pov) spot, period. So people have wooden telephone poles in the middle of their lawn. A block from my house, they dropped a pole in the middle of the curb cut for crossing the street, 5 feet from another utility pole. (To avoid renting pole space)
guilhas 7y ago
I don't need 5G, and I will have it as far as possible until people study it better.
fitnesshealth 7y ago
I think 5G unsafe, because in 5G download data 20 times faster and some genuines is argue on them. Some Engineers are said that is safe some others unsafe. In Switzerland, objections are raised against every new antenna. They said it is unsafe for humans or birds also. Want to know some health tips: https://www.fitnesshealthforever.com/ https://www.fitnesshealthforever.com/

12 points by Biba 7y ago

Wired and many other news outlets are writing about health concerns, opinions are different, so I'm interested to hear the opinion of HN community.

Tepix 7y ago

I wasn't even aware of health concerns. My first uninformed impulse reaction: More cell towers means lower signal strength which means less risk of health issues.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

maxehmookau 7y ago

The only people I've seen suggesting that it has health implications have been hanging out in my city centre also claiming that 9/11 was an inside job and that InfoWars is a legitimate news source. This is in the UK! ...so I'm not convinced of any issues so far.

kypro 7y ago
That seems a fairly accurate observation, but that alone isn't a good reason to be dismissive of health concerns. Personally I'm more worried about the privacy concerns. There is money to be made from mass surveillance after all, I'm not sure what the motivation would be to give citizens a higher rate of cancer.
guilhas 7y ago
9/11 being an inside job is still more plausible than any other theory or "investigation" conclusion really.
- maxehmookau 7y ago
  It's definitely not. But thanks for playing along.

Ultramanoid 7y ago

Related : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19595450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19595450

mruts 7y ago

Isn’t that just a narrative pushed by RT as Russian propaganda?

coldtea 7y ago
No, that's just what people who believe in conspiracies (like "everything is Russian propaganda") believe. Except if you consider the "US department of health" as Russian agents: "The NTP studies found that high exposure to RFR used by cell phones was associated with: Clear evidence of tumors in the hearts of male rats. The tumors were malignant schwannomas. Some evidence of tumors in the brains of male rats. The tumors were malignant gliomas. Some evidence of tumors in the adrenal glands of male rats. The tumors were benign, malignant, or complex combined pheochromocytoma." https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/results/areas/cellphones/index.html https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/results/areas/cellphones/index.htm... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29530389 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29530389 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X15003988 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X1... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298533689_International_Appeal_Scientists_call_for_protection_from_non-ionizing_electromagnetic_field_exposure https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298533689_Internati... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29459303 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29459303 "The results also show that the peak-to-average ratio of 1,000 tolerated by the International Council on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection guidelines may lead to permanent tissue damage after even short exposures, highlighting the importance of revisiting existing exposure guidelines." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30247338 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30247338 "Our results show that 5G downlink RF fields generate significantly higher power density (PD) and specific absorption rate (SAR) than a current cellular system. This paper also shows that SAR should also be taken into account for determining human RF exposure in the mmW downlink." https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.03683 https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.03683 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412012002334 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016041201... "Preliminary observations showed that MMW increase skin temperature, alter gene expression, promote cellular proliferation and synthesis of proteins linked with oxidative stress, inflammatory and metabolic processes, could generate ocular damages, affect neuro-muscular dynamics." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29402696 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29402696 "The analysis of various antioxidants in the plasma of exposed individuals revealed a significant attrition in glutathione (GSH) concentration (p < 0.01), activities of catalase (CAT) (p < 0.001) and superoxide dismutase (SOD) (p < 0.001) and rise in lipid peroxidation (LOO) when compared to controls. Multiple linear regression analyses revealed a significant association among reduced GSH concentration (p < 0.05), CAT (p < 0.001) and SOD (p < 0.001) activities and elevated MN frequency (p < 0.001) and LOO (p < 0.001) with increasing RF power density." https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318916428_Impact_of_radiofrequency_radiation_on_DNA_damage_and_antioxidants_in_peripheral_blood_lymphocytes_of_humans_residing_in_the_vicinity_of_mobile_phone_base_stations https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318916428_Impact_of... "► Base Station (BS) clusters and deaths by neoplasia in the Belo Horizonte municipality have been identified. ► The mortality rate has been higher for the residents within an area of 500 m from the BS. ► The radiation superposition near the BS has also been observed; the nearer the stronger. ► Measured values stay below Brazilian Federal Law limits that are the same of ICNIRP. ► The human exposure pattern guidelines are inadequate. More restrictive limits must be adopted urgently." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969711005754 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971... http://www.5gappeal.eu/signatories-to-scientists-5g-appeal/ http://www.5gappeal.eu/signatories-to-scientists-5g-appeal/ https://mdsafetech.org/2018/07/18/dr-leszczynski-sounds-warning-at-australian-meeting-precaution-with-5g/ https://mdsafetech.org/2018/07/18/dr-leszczynski-sounds-warn... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DNh0DEBrK8LyQjP1uTUjYMFguO4cF4hR/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DNh0DEBrK8LyQjP1uTUjYMFguO4...

decoyworker 7y ago

It's non-ionizing radiation. I don't worry about health issues from 5G.

SigmundA 7y ago

Although we should always be studying potential risks, I have little concern. Just keep it in perspective, you walk around outside under a nuclear fusion fireball receiving around 1000 watts of terahertz radiation some of it ionizing and known to cause cancer. Wifi, Cell including 5G are in the Gigahertz range, non-ionizing, which means they can basically heat your flesh like a microwave and nothing more and are at milliwatt power levels from the phones transmitter and maybe a hundred watts from the towers transmitter. This would be like worrying about what an led flashlight (the phone) or street light (the cell station) does to you.

Spooky23 7y ago

It’s a difficult issue, as the people carrying the water on it tend to overlap with ignorant constituencies like anti-vaxers. I know there was concern in the 90s about military exposure to millimeter wave radars, and I’ve never read anything credible about the outcome of whatever studies were done, good or bad. I know that the 24 GHz bands are part of 5G and also related to vehicle networks, so I assume that all major roads will be blanketed with coverage. My biggest concern with 5G is the FCC declaring every telephone pole “critical infrastructure” and removing or limiting the ability of local governments set rules. In my city, the incompetent response on the city’s part means that Verizon is dropping poles in the optimal (from a cost/radio pov) spot, period. So people have wooden telephone poles in the middle of their lawn. A block from my house, they dropped a pole in the middle of the curb cut for crossing the street, 5 feet from another utility pole. (To avoid renting pole space)

guilhas 7y ago

I don't need 5G, and I will have it as far as possible until people study it better.

fitnesshealth 7y ago

I think 5G unsafe, because in 5G download data 20 times faster and some genuines is argue on them. Some Engineers are said that is safe some others unsafe. In Switzerland, objections are raised against every new antenna. They said it is unsafe for humans or birds also. Want to know some health tips: https://www.fitnesshealthforever.com/ https://www.fitnesshealthforever.com/