4 ms·

You are generally free to decline to talk to the police. You definitely do not have to invite them into your home. Your rights around police interaction are ver

You are generally free to decline to talk to the police. You definitely do not have to invite them into your home. Your rights around police interaction are very similar to those in the US.

mcv 7y ago
At the same time, I would hope that Canadian police is a bit more trustworthy and trusted than US police. I certainly wouldn't want that kind of visit from police officers whose primary concern is to find a reason to arrest or shoot you, but if police is honestly trying to help and prevent problems, it's an entirely different matter. Police culture, policy and accountability matters a lot in a case like this.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  They are about 6X less likely to kill you so that helps! [1] [1] https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-canadian-police-are-so-good-at-not-shooting-people https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-canadian-police-are...
- Causality1 7y ago
  Canadian police have their fair share of psychopathic bullies and systemic racist murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/03/30/football_player_who_was_beaten_by_cops_pens_letter_of_forgiveness.html https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/03/30/football_player_... https://globalnews.ca/news/1608030/new-video-shows-another-case-of-alleged-police-brutality-in-terrace/ https://globalnews.ca/news/1608030/new-video-shows-another-c... https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/07/30/toronto_cop_charged_with_attempted_murder_in_sammy_yatim_shooting.html https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/07/30/toronto_cop_ch...
  - mcv 7y ago
    Don't let perfect be the enemy of good, though. There will always be something wrong. The point is to address it and reduce how often it goes wrong. I'm not denying these incidents are terrible; they are. And even if you do address them and punish the perpetrators, you'll still occasionally have police officers that do the wrong thing. But that doesn't mean it's pointless to hold police accountable, or to train them better.
    - antepodius 7y ago
      'We should hold police accountable and train them better' is orthogonal to 'you shouldn't talk to or interact with the police if you can help it'. You do the first to reduce the probable number of- let's say 'possibly evil police'. You do the second to reduce the probability of being damaged by 'possibly evil police'. Being for the first idea doesn't give a reason to be against the second idea. In fact, if your goal is to minimise the chance of getting fucked by police, you want to take both measures.
      - mcv 7y ago
        You're right. Still, I think it's terrible that 'you shouldn't talk to the police'. Talking to the police should be a safe thing to do. There should be trust between the people and the police. Police need to be able to talk to people in order to understand the real problems that need to be solved. My goal is not merely to not get fucked by the police, my goal is a better, safer society.
        antepodius 7y ago
        It doesn't matter how safe the police are comparatively, they'll never be safe. You can make the mechanisms on guns more and more reliable, and that's good, but not engaging in trigger/gun discipline is still always the wrong move. Police have power. You can't have functional police that don't have power, so fundamentally police are dangerous.
    - Causality1 7y ago
      I don't. I'm just saying that if a group of uniformed men showed up at my front door with guns the fact they're Canadian would not be especially comforting.
- xvf22 7y ago
  Police in Canada may be better but there are still a ton of problems especially with indigenous populations.[1][2] Ontario has the SIU for police oversight but the new provincial government is meddling with it[3]. [1]https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/19/canada-police-fail-indigenous-women-saskatchewan https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/19/canada-police-fail-indig... [2]https://aptnnews.ca/2019/05/13/were-you-turned-on-by-this-at-all-even-a-little-bit-rcmp-officer-asks-indigenous-youth-during-sexual-assault-report/ https://aptnnews.ca/2019/05/13/were-you-turned-on-by-this-at... [3]http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/808540/Constitutional+Administrative+Law/Comprehensive+Police+Services+Act+2019+Changes+Ontarios+Policing+Landscape+Again http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/808540/Constitutional+Adminis...
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    I can say, at least from what I’ve heard, the OPP is not happy about the meddling at all. They have had enough bad press the past ten years they’ve been trying to fix that. My brothers an OPP constable in rural Ontario (and incidentally married to a teacher). They were not happy with the messing about, especially the Taverner case. From what I understand Blair was a highly respected officer as well and is generally considered to have fallen on his sword to prevent the insertion of a corrupt top official. Anyway I forgot about the SIU stuff. I’m going to have to pick his brain about it.
vbuwivbiu 7y ago
police add to database "NEGATIVE_BEHAVIOR: declined invitation into home"
- bigiain 7y ago
  also: "NEGATIVE_BEHAVIOUR: asked for a warrant"
  - thecatspaw 7y ago
    also: "NEGATIVE_BEHAVIOUR: Citizen did not pick up can"

You are generally free to decline to talk to the police. You definitely do not have to invite them into your home. Your rights around police interaction are very similar to those in the US.

mcv 7y ago

At the same time, I would hope that Canadian police is a bit more trustworthy and trusted than US police. I certainly wouldn't want that kind of visit from police officers whose primary concern is to find a reason to arrest or shoot you, but if police is honestly trying to help and prevent problems, it's an entirely different matter. Police culture, policy and accountability matters a lot in a case like this.

arcticbull 7y ago
They are about 6X less likely to kill you so that helps! [1] [1] https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-canadian-police-are-so-good-at-not-shooting-people https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-canadian-police-are...
Causality1 7y ago
Canadian police have their fair share of psychopathic bullies and systemic racist murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/03/30/football_player_who_was_beaten_by_cops_pens_letter_of_forgiveness.html https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/03/30/football_player_... https://globalnews.ca/news/1608030/new-video-shows-another-case-of-alleged-police-brutality-in-terrace/ https://globalnews.ca/news/1608030/new-video-shows-another-c... https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/07/30/toronto_cop_charged_with_attempted_murder_in_sammy_yatim_shooting.html https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/07/30/toronto_cop_ch...
- mcv 7y ago
  Don't let perfect be the enemy of good, though. There will always be something wrong. The point is to address it and reduce how often it goes wrong. I'm not denying these incidents are terrible; they are. And even if you do address them and punish the perpetrators, you'll still occasionally have police officers that do the wrong thing. But that doesn't mean it's pointless to hold police accountable, or to train them better.
  - antepodius 7y ago
    'We should hold police accountable and train them better' is orthogonal to 'you shouldn't talk to or interact with the police if you can help it'. You do the first to reduce the probable number of- let's say 'possibly evil police'. You do the second to reduce the probability of being damaged by 'possibly evil police'. Being for the first idea doesn't give a reason to be against the second idea. In fact, if your goal is to minimise the chance of getting fucked by police, you want to take both measures.
    - mcv 7y ago
      You're right. Still, I think it's terrible that 'you shouldn't talk to the police'. Talking to the police should be a safe thing to do. There should be trust between the people and the police. Police need to be able to talk to people in order to understand the real problems that need to be solved. My goal is not merely to not get fucked by the police, my goal is a better, safer society.
      - antepodius 7y ago
        It doesn't matter how safe the police are comparatively, they'll never be safe. You can make the mechanisms on guns more and more reliable, and that's good, but not engaging in trigger/gun discipline is still always the wrong move. Police have power. You can't have functional police that don't have power, so fundamentally police are dangerous.
  - Causality1 7y ago
    I don't. I'm just saying that if a group of uniformed men showed up at my front door with guns the fact they're Canadian would not be especially comforting.
xvf22 7y ago
Police in Canada may be better but there are still a ton of problems especially with indigenous populations.[1][2] Ontario has the SIU for police oversight but the new provincial government is meddling with it[3]. [1]https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/19/canada-police-fail-indigenous-women-saskatchewan https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/19/canada-police-fail-indig... [2]https://aptnnews.ca/2019/05/13/were-you-turned-on-by-this-at-all-even-a-little-bit-rcmp-officer-asks-indigenous-youth-during-sexual-assault-report/ https://aptnnews.ca/2019/05/13/were-you-turned-on-by-this-at... [3]http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/808540/Constitutional+Administrative+Law/Comprehensive+Police+Services+Act+2019+Changes+Ontarios+Policing+Landscape+Again http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/808540/Constitutional+Adminis...
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  I can say, at least from what I’ve heard, the OPP is not happy about the meddling at all. They have had enough bad press the past ten years they’ve been trying to fix that. My brothers an OPP constable in rural Ontario (and incidentally married to a teacher). They were not happy with the messing about, especially the Taverner case. From what I understand Blair was a highly respected officer as well and is generally considered to have fallen on his sword to prevent the insertion of a corrupt top official. Anyway I forgot about the SIU stuff. I’m going to have to pick his brain about it.

vbuwivbiu 7y ago

police add to database "NEGATIVE_BEHAVIOR: declined invitation into home"

bigiain 7y ago
also: "NEGATIVE_BEHAVIOUR: asked for a warrant"
- thecatspaw 7y ago
  also: "NEGATIVE_BEHAVIOUR: Citizen did not pick up can"