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“The police are not your friends.” In some countries outside the US, they are. https://www.oapen.org/download?type=document&docid=634763 https://www.oapen.org/d

“The police are not your friends.” In some countries outside the US, they are. https://www.oapen.org/download?type=document&docid=634763 https://www.oapen.org/download?type=document&docid=634763

bmmayer1 7y ago
In many more countries outside the US, they are not.
- mcv 7y ago
  True, and that should prompt any country to look around, compare results, and make decisions on what they want to be like. In my opinion, a police that's feared rather than trusted, is a sign of a police state or totalitarian regime. If that's not what the country wants to be, then it's a problem that needs to be fixed.
  - bmmayer1 7y ago
    I think there's this assumption that countries are like sentient beings who can 'decide' things. The reality of how a society functions, from cultural norms to laws to violence, is a unique combination of the whims and desires and priorities of the population, for better or for worse...countries don't want things, people do.
    - mcv 7y ago
      But countries do have a decision making process. It's called politics. It doesn't control every aspect of the country, and culture in particular is hard to control directly, but police is a government function, paid by taxes. If there's anything a country should be able to control, it's how their police operates.
      - bmmayer1 7y ago
        If that's true, then there's a problem with this statement: > In my opinion, a police that's feared rather than trusted, is a sign of a police state or totalitarian regime. If that's not what the country wants to be, then it's a problem that needs to be fixed The assumption is that if the police is feared / overly militaristic, then by definition that country must 'want' to be a police state. Given that Americans overwhelmingly, if asked, would not want to live in a totalitarian or a police state, then either we're not really a police state, or we're not capable of controlling how our police operates. I don't think the latter is true; we obviously have political control over our police. So is it possible that maybe we're not the jackbooted thugocratic police state that we're portrayed to be?
        mcv 7y ago
        If Americans don't want to live in a police state, then they should demand that the behaviour of their police changes. That police officers are held accountable, and are better trained to perform their job in the interest of the people, rather than merely their own interest or that of the government. If you have control over your police, then please exercise it. I think the problem that's holding Americans back, also evidenced in this discussion here, is that they've learned to accept this hostile relationship with the police as normal. It's not. It's harmful, and should be unacceptable. > So is it possible that maybe we're not the jackbooted thugocratic police state that we're portrayed to be? I certainly hope so. I've never been to the US; I'm just going by what Americans themselves are telling me about their country. And some of the things they're saying is that you should fear the police, not talk to the police, etc. It's not a single person claiming this; I hear this every single time this topic comes up. So I'm inclined to take it as true.
        bmmayer1 7y ago
        > I'm just going by what Americans themselves are telling me about their country Ah, this makes sense then :) Definitely visit the US...I can tell you that the Americans who travel tend to lean heavily "liberal" in their politics (in other words, anti-police), which would explain that your perception of American life is definitely skewed in favor of this view. Note that yes, of course, we do have major problems with our police, especially with regard to militarization of the police and abuse of power, especially in poor communities. But the actual reality of the relationship between Americans and the police is nuanced and complicated, not as obvious as your well-traveled American friends would have you believe :)
bubblewrap 7y ago
Still, they usually have absolute power to screw you over, if they fancy to do so. Safest way to not give them any ideas is to minimize interaction.

“The police are not your friends.” In some countries outside the US, they are. https://www.oapen.org/download?type=document&docid=634763 https://www.oapen.org/download?type=document&docid=634763

bmmayer1 7y ago

In many more countries outside the US, they are not.

mcv 7y ago
True, and that should prompt any country to look around, compare results, and make decisions on what they want to be like. In my opinion, a police that's feared rather than trusted, is a sign of a police state or totalitarian regime. If that's not what the country wants to be, then it's a problem that needs to be fixed.
- bmmayer1 7y ago
  I think there's this assumption that countries are like sentient beings who can 'decide' things. The reality of how a society functions, from cultural norms to laws to violence, is a unique combination of the whims and desires and priorities of the population, for better or for worse...countries don't want things, people do.
  - mcv 7y ago
    But countries do have a decision making process. It's called politics. It doesn't control every aspect of the country, and culture in particular is hard to control directly, but police is a government function, paid by taxes. If there's anything a country should be able to control, it's how their police operates.
    - bmmayer1 7y ago
      If that's true, then there's a problem with this statement: > In my opinion, a police that's feared rather than trusted, is a sign of a police state or totalitarian regime. If that's not what the country wants to be, then it's a problem that needs to be fixed The assumption is that if the police is feared / overly militaristic, then by definition that country must 'want' to be a police state. Given that Americans overwhelmingly, if asked, would not want to live in a totalitarian or a police state, then either we're not really a police state, or we're not capable of controlling how our police operates. I don't think the latter is true; we obviously have political control over our police. So is it possible that maybe we're not the jackbooted thugocratic police state that we're portrayed to be?
      - mcv 7y ago
        If Americans don't want to live in a police state, then they should demand that the behaviour of their police changes. That police officers are held accountable, and are better trained to perform their job in the interest of the people, rather than merely their own interest or that of the government. If you have control over your police, then please exercise it. I think the problem that's holding Americans back, also evidenced in this discussion here, is that they've learned to accept this hostile relationship with the police as normal. It's not. It's harmful, and should be unacceptable. > So is it possible that maybe we're not the jackbooted thugocratic police state that we're portrayed to be? I certainly hope so. I've never been to the US; I'm just going by what Americans themselves are telling me about their country. And some of the things they're saying is that you should fear the police, not talk to the police, etc. It's not a single person claiming this; I hear this every single time this topic comes up. So I'm inclined to take it as true.
        bmmayer1 7y ago
        > I'm just going by what Americans themselves are telling me about their country Ah, this makes sense then :) Definitely visit the US...I can tell you that the Americans who travel tend to lean heavily "liberal" in their politics (in other words, anti-police), which would explain that your perception of American life is definitely skewed in favor of this view. Note that yes, of course, we do have major problems with our police, especially with regard to militarization of the police and abuse of power, especially in poor communities. But the actual reality of the relationship between Americans and the police is nuanced and complicated, not as obvious as your well-traveled American friends would have you believe :)

bubblewrap 7y ago

Still, they usually have absolute power to screw you over, if they fancy to do so. Safest way to not give them any ideas is to minimize interaction.