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Is this not how it works for pretty much more – if not all – projects? Good luck trying to land a patch in Python if the small group of core developers don't ag

Is this not how it works for pretty much more – if not all – projects? Good luck trying to land a patch in Python if the small group of core developers don't agree. Or PHP. Or Ruby. Or Firefox. Or Linux. Or anything else really. Quite a few of the core Go devs aren't hired by Google out of the general programming pool, they were already contributing to Go and then Google asked "hey, cool stuff; why not come work on Go for us?" Again, this is pretty much how you join any core group of developers: make good contributions, get asked. Except here you actually get paid.

coldtea 7y ago
>Good luck trying to land a patch in Python if the small group of core developers don't agree. Well, Python has this: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8016/#electing-the-council https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8016/#electing-the-counc... and you can also get to be a core team member (and many have). What about Go?
- Carpetsmoker 7y ago
  as mentioned in another comment, a number of people have been hired by Google "from the community" (including e.g. spf13/Steve Francia, the Go product manager). I don't have access to their HR accounts, so I can't tell you how many exactly. But if you do good work, there's a non-zero chance you'll get hired. I think voting and whatnot are implementation details. That PEP says only core team members can vote who can join the core team, so core team choosing vs. core team voting is not all that different in practice.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Hired employee implies control, it's not like becoming a part of a group of equals.
    - Carpetsmoker 7y ago
      So everyone is "equal" in Python?
      - coldtea 7y ago
        Even if they're not equals, they're not employees of the owner of the project, which is the point.
        lostjohnny 7y ago
        So there's an higher chance they could leave without notice for lack of funding or because their full time job leave them not enough time
        coldtea 7y ago
        Yes, and hence a higher chance that they are not a hardened paid-for core team, but a looser team where people can come and go, and where an outsider can get influence.
        lostjohnny 7y ago
        This always reminds me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9gaEiQAxY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9gaEiQAxY people should be paid to work to a product under some direction, if you want some professional outcome teams where people come and go rarely have built solid products Take for example the Linux kernel, Alan Cox has been working on it non-stop from 1991 to 2009, and even after resigning as TTY maintainer, he was still heavily involved up to 2014 From 1999 to 2009 he was employed by RedHat and after That by Intel until 2013 I can't honestly say he did RedHat or Intel interests more than he did Linux community as a whole interests He's a big advocate and activist for free software, but he also said "Yearn for the good old days when you knew every contributor by name and the source code fitted on a single floppy disc ?" In a way or another, a small group of "directors" is always better for the good of both the product and the users
        Carpetsmoker 7y ago

coldtea 7y ago

>Good luck trying to land a patch in Python if the small group of core developers don't agree. Well, Python has this: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8016/#electing-the-council https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8016/#electing-the-counc... and you can also get to be a core team member (and many have). What about Go?

Carpetsmoker 7y ago
as mentioned in another comment, a number of people have been hired by Google "from the community" (including e.g. spf13/Steve Francia, the Go product manager). I don't have access to their HR accounts, so I can't tell you how many exactly. But if you do good work, there's a non-zero chance you'll get hired. I think voting and whatnot are implementation details. That PEP says only core team members can vote who can join the core team, so core team choosing vs. core team voting is not all that different in practice.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Hired employee implies control, it's not like becoming a part of a group of equals.
  - Carpetsmoker 7y ago
    So everyone is "equal" in Python?
    - coldtea 7y ago
      Even if they're not equals, they're not employees of the owner of the project, which is the point.
      - lostjohnny 7y ago
        So there's an higher chance they could leave without notice for lack of funding or because their full time job leave them not enough time
        coldtea 7y ago
        Yes, and hence a higher chance that they are not a hardened paid-for core team, but a looser team where people can come and go, and where an outsider can get influence.
        lostjohnny 7y ago
        This always reminds me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9gaEiQAxY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9gaEiQAxY people should be paid to work to a product under some direction, if you want some professional outcome teams where people come and go rarely have built solid products Take for example the Linux kernel, Alan Cox has been working on it non-stop from 1991 to 2009, and even after resigning as TTY maintainer, he was still heavily involved up to 2014 From 1999 to 2009 he was employed by RedHat and after That by Intel until 2013 I can't honestly say he did RedHat or Intel interests more than he did Linux community as a whole interests He's a big advocate and activist for free software, but he also said "Yearn for the good old days when you knew every contributor by name and the source code fitted on a single floppy disc ?" In a way or another, a small group of "directors" is always better for the good of both the product and the users
      - Carpetsmoker 7y ago