5 ms·

What can one expect Apple to do, disallow apps that do extensive tracking, causing their users to not be able to use any social media whatsoever? They don't ha

by ve55 7y ago

What can one expect Apple to do, disallow apps that do extensive tracking, causing their users to not be able to use any social media whatsoever? They don't have any feasible option in that space. It is nice that they do something rather than nothing.

IloveHN84 7y ago
It would me removing Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, Instagram, Google & co. From AppStore. Then you'll land in the same ecosystem of WindowsPhone, which was declared dead form those app makers.
- mirimir 7y ago
  Not if Google did the same.
mirimir 7y ago
I expect them to stop lying about protecting users' privacy.
- ben_w 7y ago
  You’re literally the first person I’ve seen complain that Apple allows apps to do too much. Everyone else that I’ve seen complain, wants to be free to install any app without Apple’s permission, and claim end users can be trusted to be responsible for the security and privacy implications.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    I do like freedom to do what I like with my devices. But Apple 1) clearly does vet apps, and allows only approved apps to be installed, and 2) makes broad claims about privacy. If Apple wants to make broad claims about privacy, it should kick all offending apps from its store. But it should also allow users to install whatever apps they like. That puts responsibility on users.
  - ubermonkey 7y ago
    LOL. This is because Apple can do no right on HN.
- mirimir 7y ago
  Maybe it's unfair to call it "lying". Still, they could say that they totally respect users' privacy. And add that, although they vet all apps in their store, they can't guarantee that those apps will respect users' privacy.
ElFitz 7y ago
Also, some of this stuff (ie crashlytics) is merely about crash reporting. Sure, as a user, it would be best to be asked, but as a dev I'm glad not to have to cross my fingers and hope users will send me (useful) crash reports ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- corobo 7y ago
  Can't you dump out the crash report somewhere and ask if the user wants to submit it when they next open the app?
  - kmlx 7y ago
    the users have no idea what "crash report" means
    - corobo 7y ago
      Best erode their privacy then
      - ElFitz 7y ago
        I have never seen any personal info in crashlytic's crash reports. It is still blocked by the "vpn" they recommend.
        TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Unfortunately you can't trust random SDKs to not be evil or turn evil in the future.
        ElFitz 7y ago
        True. Especially when they're bought by Google (see fabric) But - same could be said about most mainstream web browsers - same could be said about whatever latest mobile animation framework everyone just fell in love with - when it comes to my personal apps, I'll just release what I built for my use. I try to do it well, but if I didn't have a simple way to detect and report crashes from the few users out there, I just wouldn't bother with said crashes unless they affect me. It already isn't worth it, in any way. - when it comes to clients, they don't pay me to spend time reinventing the wheel, nor to setup some infrastructure that will also later have to be maintained. Heck, it's often hard enough to convince them to let me add tests
DavideNL 7y ago
> What can one expect Apple to do on macOS/Windows/Linux people can inspect apps and malicious apps will be discovered by hackers and reported in the news. on iOS, Apple build a walled garden where nobody can see what happens under the hood. Zero transparency, and no way to opt-out. A perfect environment for misuse/abuse to go unnoticed.
- tgragnato 7y ago
  > on iOS, Apple build a walled garden where nobody can see what happens under the hood. Zero transparency, and no way to opt-out. You still have visibility on the network traffic. May I suggest to setup a VPN? Run your own resolver and sinkhole tracking domains, apply additional filtering rules, ... https://danrl.com/blog/2017/luci-proto-wireguard/ https://danrl.com/blog/2017/luci-proto-wireguard/
  - DavideNL 7y ago
    I'm aware of that, but it's like a band-aid; Without an application firewall you can't prevent apps from uploading their tracking data. Apps change at a rapid pace, and so do many tracker domains/public ips. By the time the user noticed the changes it's already too late and all the collected data has been uploaded. It's just impossible to maintain a 100% block to prevent your private data being uploaded, without an application firewall.
    - tgragnato 7y ago
      Without controlling the OS nor the applications, it's a tough task, most things are a band-aid. The possibility of an application firewall evokes me mixed feelings: it'd be great, but I'd have to set what's allowed per app, per phone. Even at that point I doubt it's possible to assure a 100% rate.

by ve55 7y ago

IloveHN84 7y ago

It would me removing Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, Instagram, Google & co. From AppStore. Then you'll land in the same ecosystem of WindowsPhone, which was declared dead form those app makers.

mirimir 7y ago
Not if Google did the same.

mirimir 7y ago

I expect them to stop lying about protecting users' privacy.

ben_w 7y ago
You’re literally the first person I’ve seen complain that Apple allows apps to do too much. Everyone else that I’ve seen complain, wants to be free to install any app without Apple’s permission, and claim end users can be trusted to be responsible for the security and privacy implications.
- mirimir 7y ago
  I do like freedom to do what I like with my devices. But Apple 1) clearly does vet apps, and allows only approved apps to be installed, and 2) makes broad claims about privacy. If Apple wants to make broad claims about privacy, it should kick all offending apps from its store. But it should also allow users to install whatever apps they like. That puts responsibility on users.
- ubermonkey 7y ago
  LOL. This is because Apple can do no right on HN.
mirimir 7y ago
Maybe it's unfair to call it "lying". Still, they could say that they totally respect users' privacy. And add that, although they vet all apps in their store, they can't guarantee that those apps will respect users' privacy.

ElFitz 7y ago

Also, some of this stuff (ie crashlytics) is merely about crash reporting. Sure, as a user, it would be best to be asked, but as a dev I'm glad not to have to cross my fingers and hope users will send me (useful) crash reports ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

corobo 7y ago
Can't you dump out the crash report somewhere and ask if the user wants to submit it when they next open the app?
- kmlx 7y ago
  the users have no idea what "crash report" means
  - corobo 7y ago
    Best erode their privacy then
    - ElFitz 7y ago
      I have never seen any personal info in crashlytic's crash reports. It is still blocked by the "vpn" they recommend.
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Unfortunately you can't trust random SDKs to not be evil or turn evil in the future.
        ElFitz 7y ago
        True. Especially when they're bought by Google (see fabric) But - same could be said about most mainstream web browsers - same could be said about whatever latest mobile animation framework everyone just fell in love with - when it comes to my personal apps, I'll just release what I built for my use. I try to do it well, but if I didn't have a simple way to detect and report crashes from the few users out there, I just wouldn't bother with said crashes unless they affect me. It already isn't worth it, in any way. - when it comes to clients, they don't pay me to spend time reinventing the wheel, nor to setup some infrastructure that will also later have to be maintained. Heck, it's often hard enough to convince them to let me add tests

DavideNL 7y ago

> What can one expect Apple to do on macOS/Windows/Linux people can inspect apps and malicious apps will be discovered by hackers and reported in the news. on iOS, Apple build a walled garden where nobody can see what happens under the hood. Zero transparency, and no way to opt-out. A perfect environment for misuse/abuse to go unnoticed.

tgragnato 7y ago
> on iOS, Apple build a walled garden where nobody can see what happens under the hood. Zero transparency, and no way to opt-out. You still have visibility on the network traffic. May I suggest to setup a VPN? Run your own resolver and sinkhole tracking domains, apply additional filtering rules, ... https://danrl.com/blog/2017/luci-proto-wireguard/ https://danrl.com/blog/2017/luci-proto-wireguard/
- DavideNL 7y ago
  I'm aware of that, but it's like a band-aid; Without an application firewall you can't prevent apps from uploading their tracking data. Apps change at a rapid pace, and so do many tracker domains/public ips. By the time the user noticed the changes it's already too late and all the collected data has been uploaded. It's just impossible to maintain a 100% block to prevent your private data being uploaded, without an application firewall.
  - tgragnato 7y ago
    Without controlling the OS nor the applications, it's a tough task, most things are a band-aid. The possibility of an application firewall evokes me mixed feelings: it'd be great, but I'd have to set what's allowed per app, per phone. Even at that point I doubt it's possible to assure a 100% rate.