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There's some good advice here, but I don't know how evidence-based it all is. For example, I understand that there is some evidence that extrinsic rewards have
by asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
There's some good advice here, but I don't know how evidence-based it all is. For example, I understand that there is some evidence that extrinsic rewards have problems when delivered in certain ways, but I don't think we've entirely overturned behaviorism. Rewards and punishments are a tool that the world uses on us, like it or not. It would be surprising if there were no place for that tool in child-rearing.
Likewise, I question the advice to not involve oneself in children's fights. If one child is much bigger than the other, they can impose their will on the smaller child. Growing up, I saw friends who were on the losing side of this exchange, and it can be scarring.
Still more of the advice is well meant but impractical. "Never do for the child what they can do for themselves." Suppose I have a flight to catch, and my son refuses to put on his own shoes. Am I to miss the flight then? My son can be stubborn. On one occasion I tried to follow this advice when he refused to walk himself home. We stood on the sidewalk for half an hour in twenty degree weather before I gave up and compelled him to walk home.
I suspect, like much parenting advice, this stuff works for some kids and doesn't work for others. So much of parenting advice is survivorship bias. That a particular technique works for one child does not imply it works for all children. I can buy that these points are effective for most children, but ultimately you have to do what it takes to survive, and part of that is tailoring this stuff to your unique relationship with your own child.
- jolfdb 7y ago"Middlebrow dismissals" like this are discouraged on HN.
- SanderSantema 7y agoI was interested what the exact meaning of a “Middlebrow dismissal” is (non-native speaker). But I could only find the following in the HN guidelines which doesn’t seem to mention middlebrow dismissals nor does it seem to be applicable to the toplevel comment: “Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something” What exactly is a “middlebrow dismissal” and why would the toplevel comment be that?
- warent 7y agoI'm a native English speaker and can take a stab here. Lowbrow typically means unsophisticated (as in, like a neanderthal or ape) whereas highbrow means sophisticated. I'm assuming middlebrow means, well, something in the middle. All of that being said, the "middlebrow dismissal" observation/criticism makes zero sense to me here.
- csa 7y agoI think this link answers it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5072224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5072224 This is pretty good, too: http://www.byrnehobart.com/blog/why-are-middlebrow-dismissals-so-tempting/ http://www.byrnehobart.com/blog/why-are-middlebrow-dismissal...
- ACow_Adonis 7y agoI'm a native speaker and I've got no idea what he's saying. honestly I thought the guy made it up to try to sound cool... I also assumed given that it was a green account and a one line response that it would be downvoted and marked as spam.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y agoI don't think my post is "middle-brow". It's also not a dismissal. Can you explain what about it made you think so? I posted detailed, personal experiences that directly argue against particular items of advice in the PDF. This is DH4 in http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html.
- volkadav 7y agoAgreed, and also in terms of evidence-based conclusions: if this was published and widely read starting in 1967, that means a good chunk of Gen X would have been parented along these lines. Given what a bunch of slacker fuckups we all are I'm not sure that's evidence in favor of this being a good approach. ;)
- watwut 7y agoYeah, I have seen products of non-involvement and did not liked it. They did not got along better. In one case, they hated each other progressively more and more, in other mini culture emerged where it is ok for stronger to mistreat whoever no one has right for respectful treatment unless can fight. Did not impressed me at all. We tell kids when they do something else wrong: be it littering, stealing from someone, destroying something, whatever. We dont expect them to figure it is wrong magically. They dont magically figure it is wrong to mistreat smaller kids for fun either. Also, it often amounts to enabling bullying. The biggest asshole kid gets its way, whether for benefit of for just fun, the bullied one is blamed for not being able to solve situation.