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If you did that then you might as well nationalize the universities because otherwise they'd shut down. There's simply no way universities will grant degrees to

If you did that then you might as well nationalize the universities because otherwise they'd shut down. There's simply no way universities will grant degrees to students who write exams that they did not administer. Universities live and die by their reputations. The entire purpose of a university degree is so that the school can vouch for their student, putting the weight of their reputation behind the person so that they have an easier time securing employment. I would also like to take issue with your choice of the word "responsibility" as it pertains to grading. Universities have the right to grade their students, as organizations made up of individuals in a free society. They will not relinquish their right to administer examinations without a fight. Moreover, if you were to succeed, you would only replace the economic pressure to inflate grades with political pressure. In my experience, public schools are under far more pressure to do this than universities are. A major part of this pressure is manifested in the tendency to standardize exams, leading to hyper-focus on exam prep at the expense of general learning.

helen___keller 7y ago
>In my experience, public schools are under far more pressure to do this than universities are. A major part of this pressure is manifested in the tendency to standardize exams, leading to hyper-focus on exam prep at the expense of general learning. Funny anecdote, when I was in (public) high school my school district calculated your "GPA" with additive bonuses for honors classes and AP classes. If you pass an honors course, it adds 0.08 to your cumulative GPA, for an AP course 0.16, with the top students in the school district usually graduating around a 7 point GPA On top of this, the guidance counselors were really pushy about making sure every good student took every AP class available. Once I had to argue with a guidance counselor not to put me in AP history because I didn't like history. She put it on my schedule anyways and I had to go back and transfer out. Turns out teachers get bonuses, and the school gets bonus funding, when students pass AP exams. I would assume there's also GPA based funding for the schools, but I don't know of any specifics except that the schools are measured for 'improvement' which certainly hints at structural incentives for GPA inflation.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
If you did that then you might as well nationalize the universities because otherwise they'd shut down. Some would, others would thrive by delivering what their students want (a qualification and the jobs that follow on from that.) A graduate from the University of Waterloo would be considered the equal of one from Stanford given equal results. That isn't the case now. I imagine most universities would hate it but anything that threatens their cosy financial situation is going to be opposed. Universities have the right to grade their students, as organizations made up of individuals in a free society. Would you support universities having the freedom to sell grades? $100,000 for a first class degree, $150,000 for a masters? No study needed. They can be regulated just as any other organisation can be if society decided that's what they wanted to do.
- chongli 7y ago
  A graduate from the University of Waterloo would be considered the equal of one from Stanford given equal results. That isn't the case now. As a student at Waterloo right now, I'd love for this to happen but I don't believe it would be the case. Even if examinations were standardized across all schools, employers would simply shift to some other metric, such as course grades. Now that I think about it, how would it even be possible? The Faculty of Mathematics at the University of Waterloo offers over 300 undergrad (not including grad school!) courses alone! The vast majority of these courses are unique to the school. Are you suggesting we wipe that out and force a standardized curriculum? Or are you suggesting we have standardized examinations in: * Algebraic Topology * Analysis of Spatial Data in Health Research * Calculus of Variations * Control Theory * Fluid Mechanics * Game Theory * Lebesgue Integration and Fourier Analysis * Matroid Theory * Professional Communications in Statistics and Actuarial Science * Property and Casualty Pricing * Quantitative Enterprise Risk Management * Quantum Information Processing * Real-Time Programming * Semidefinite Optimization * Software Requirements Specification and Analysis I could go on and on and on... I think you get the point. Math profs are constantly creating new courses based on areas of active research. How are you going to standardize examinations for those things? Every university offers different things! Would you support universities having the freedom to sell grades? $100,000 for a first class degree, $150,000 for a masters? No study needed. For-profit "colleges" did just that, until they were shut down. What you've described is usually called academic fraud. If Stanford did that, their reputation would be obliterated overnight. Look at the ongoing story over the admissions bribery scandal. It's a HUGE story and it's only a case of fabricated athletic credentials for admissions, never mind fabricated degrees. I'm not worried about this problem at all.

helen___keller 7y ago

>In my experience, public schools are under far more pressure to do this than universities are. A major part of this pressure is manifested in the tendency to standardize exams, leading to hyper-focus on exam prep at the expense of general learning. Funny anecdote, when I was in (public) high school my school district calculated your "GPA" with additive bonuses for honors classes and AP classes. If you pass an honors course, it adds 0.08 to your cumulative GPA, for an AP course 0.16, with the top students in the school district usually graduating around a 7 point GPA On top of this, the guidance counselors were really pushy about making sure every good student took every AP class available. Once I had to argue with a guidance counselor not to put me in AP history because I didn't like history. She put it on my schedule anyways and I had to go back and transfer out. Turns out teachers get bonuses, and the school gets bonus funding, when students pass AP exams. I would assume there's also GPA based funding for the schools, but I don't know of any specifics except that the schools are measured for 'improvement' which certainly hints at structural incentives for GPA inflation.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

If you did that then you might as well nationalize the universities because otherwise they'd shut down. Some would, others would thrive by delivering what their students want (a qualification and the jobs that follow on from that.) A graduate from the University of Waterloo would be considered the equal of one from Stanford given equal results. That isn't the case now. I imagine most universities would hate it but anything that threatens their cosy financial situation is going to be opposed. Universities have the right to grade their students, as organizations made up of individuals in a free society. Would you support universities having the freedom to sell grades? $100,000 for a first class degree, $150,000 for a masters? No study needed. They can be regulated just as any other organisation can be if society decided that's what they wanted to do.

chongli 7y ago
A graduate from the University of Waterloo would be considered the equal of one from Stanford given equal results. That isn't the case now. As a student at Waterloo right now, I'd love for this to happen but I don't believe it would be the case. Even if examinations were standardized across all schools, employers would simply shift to some other metric, such as course grades. Now that I think about it, how would it even be possible? The Faculty of Mathematics at the University of Waterloo offers over 300 undergrad (not including grad school!) courses alone! The vast majority of these courses are unique to the school. Are you suggesting we wipe that out and force a standardized curriculum? Or are you suggesting we have standardized examinations in: * Algebraic Topology * Analysis of Spatial Data in Health Research * Calculus of Variations * Control Theory * Fluid Mechanics * Game Theory * Lebesgue Integration and Fourier Analysis * Matroid Theory * Professional Communications in Statistics and Actuarial Science * Property and Casualty Pricing * Quantitative Enterprise Risk Management * Quantum Information Processing * Real-Time Programming * Semidefinite Optimization * Software Requirements Specification and Analysis I could go on and on and on... I think you get the point. Math profs are constantly creating new courses based on areas of active research. How are you going to standardize examinations for those things? Every university offers different things! Would you support universities having the freedom to sell grades? $100,000 for a first class degree, $150,000 for a masters? No study needed. For-profit "colleges" did just that, until they were shut down. What you've described is usually called academic fraud. If Stanford did that, their reputation would be obliterated overnight. Look at the ongoing story over the admissions bribery scandal. It's a HUGE story and it's only a case of fabricated athletic credentials for admissions, never mind fabricated degrees. I'm not worried about this problem at all.