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I tend to agree, but the fact that saying a degree "doesn't matter" is the exact opposite extreme. Many of the latest advancements in technology still have orig

I tend to agree, but the fact that saying a degree "doesn't matter" is the exact opposite extreme. Many of the latest advancements in technology still have origins in university programs and the algorithms that one learns are still ever present in every piece of code that you write. They've just been abstracted enough that you don't need to have an immersed understanding of it. It has come to the point where its subconscious in most developers minds when they instantiate a list or dictionary. However, when you're working on the front lines, you better believe that that stuff becomes incredibly important. Being able to construct good algorithms, explain why they're good or bad, what inputs they require, etc. make all the difference. Which is why I'm under the impression that if you really want to go to college, you should be trying to get into a PhD, rather than making it into some job prep. For example, if you just want to be a programmer that studies web frameworks, then knowing binary search and tree algorithms won't matter much in the grand scheme of things. Because you're just an end user of the research work at that moment. I think there should be a common ground where degrees in computer science should be geared toward a research or job path with distinct goals. Say, the job path teaches you how to use frameworks and build things where the research path puts you into algorithms and heavy math.

jtbayly 7y ago
> Which is why I'm under the impression that if you really want to go to college, you should be trying to get into a PhD This indicates that you do agree with the original article. It's just that you've accepted lowering the standards a full level across the board. A PhD today becomes equivalent to the masters degree from a few years ago, masters now equates to old bachelors, bachelors now equates to old HS diploma. But with continued lowering of standards at each level, what inevitably happens is that the next higher level becomes a job qualification as companies look for high quality candidates. So in your system, it will only take a few years before it will require everyone to go to school for a masters to even get a job. This system is broken.
- jshowa3 7y ago
  I don't. The article wants to make college hard for the sake of it in order to make some barrier that only the "truly intellectual" can meet. I proposed two different paths with different focus areas. Bachelors absolutely do not equate to a HS diploma because it depends largely on where you go. My HS school was a standard, public school that only taught the basic subjects. There was no programming course, computation theory course, discrete math course, web development course, compiler course, etc. So in your system, it will only take a few years before it will require everyone to go to school for a masters to even get a job. This system is broken. This is assuming your premise holds and it really doesn't. There's companies that still do non-web work to this day and still survive perfectly well.
  - jtbayly 7y ago
    What does web work have to do with it? What percent of jobs require a college degree for no discernible reason (as evidenced by the fact that any college degree is acceptable)? It used to be that a HS diploma was required to demonstrate that you could work hard. Now they are easy, so we require a bachelors to prove the same thing.
    - jshowa3 7y ago
      It has always been a requirement for a bachelors. In fact, there was more of a requirement for a bachelors than there was now. I don't know what the percentage is, but I've been fired from one job as an intern for not completing mine and was told I wouldn't be hired without one when I contracted for another. Nearly all positions I've seen request a bachelors or equivalent experience, especially in engineering positions. Currently 35% of jobs require a degree, with nearly all STEM positions requiring post-secondary education according to findings posted here: https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/recovery-job-growth-and-education-requirements-through-2020/ https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/recovery-job-growth-a...
linuxftw 7y ago
> Many of the latest advancements in technology still have origins in university programs and the algorithms that one learns are still ever present in every piece of code that you write. Were these advancements done by degree-seeking students? Probably not. These advancements are coming from psuedo-employees of the university. Instead of receiving payment, they're receiving a piece of letterhead. > Say, the job path teaches you how to use frameworks and build things where the research path puts you into algorithms and heavy math. Technical colleges do exist. Many institutions now have 'applied sciences' degrees for the associates level.
- jshowa3 7y ago
  Yes the advances are coming from degree seeking students. That's kind of the point of a PhD program. Its to write an original work. PhD students often receive a stipend. So they do get paid to do their work.

jtbayly 7y ago

> Which is why I'm under the impression that if you really want to go to college, you should be trying to get into a PhD This indicates that you do agree with the original article. It's just that you've accepted lowering the standards a full level across the board. A PhD today becomes equivalent to the masters degree from a few years ago, masters now equates to old bachelors, bachelors now equates to old HS diploma. But with continued lowering of standards at each level, what inevitably happens is that the next higher level becomes a job qualification as companies look for high quality candidates. So in your system, it will only take a few years before it will require everyone to go to school for a masters to even get a job. This system is broken.

jshowa3 7y ago
I don't. The article wants to make college hard for the sake of it in order to make some barrier that only the "truly intellectual" can meet. I proposed two different paths with different focus areas. Bachelors absolutely do not equate to a HS diploma because it depends largely on where you go. My HS school was a standard, public school that only taught the basic subjects. There was no programming course, computation theory course, discrete math course, web development course, compiler course, etc. So in your system, it will only take a few years before it will require everyone to go to school for a masters to even get a job. This system is broken. This is assuming your premise holds and it really doesn't. There's companies that still do non-web work to this day and still survive perfectly well.
- jtbayly 7y ago
  What does web work have to do with it? What percent of jobs require a college degree for no discernible reason (as evidenced by the fact that any college degree is acceptable)? It used to be that a HS diploma was required to demonstrate that you could work hard. Now they are easy, so we require a bachelors to prove the same thing.
  - jshowa3 7y ago
    It has always been a requirement for a bachelors. In fact, there was more of a requirement for a bachelors than there was now. I don't know what the percentage is, but I've been fired from one job as an intern for not completing mine and was told I wouldn't be hired without one when I contracted for another. Nearly all positions I've seen request a bachelors or equivalent experience, especially in engineering positions. Currently 35% of jobs require a degree, with nearly all STEM positions requiring post-secondary education according to findings posted here: https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/recovery-job-growth-and-education-requirements-through-2020/ https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/recovery-job-growth-a...

linuxftw 7y ago

> Many of the latest advancements in technology still have origins in university programs and the algorithms that one learns are still ever present in every piece of code that you write. Were these advancements done by degree-seeking students? Probably not. These advancements are coming from psuedo-employees of the university. Instead of receiving payment, they're receiving a piece of letterhead. > Say, the job path teaches you how to use frameworks and build things where the research path puts you into algorithms and heavy math. Technical colleges do exist. Many institutions now have 'applied sciences' degrees for the associates level.

jshowa3 7y ago
Yes the advances are coming from degree seeking students. That's kind of the point of a PhD program. Its to write an original work. PhD students often receive a stipend. So they do get paid to do their work.